gbrungra said..
So if you had to buy one front wing to learn to flatwater SUPfoil start, would it be XXL, or XXL Pro? I know low aspect starts earlier, but the XXL Pro just has so much extra area...

Nobody had done a flatwater start until 2-3 years ago. Probably still fewer than 100 worldwide can do one? I've read that several people were very close, but could not do it until getting a 2400cm^2 wing.

il hoping that as technology (boards, fools, paddles) are optimized for flatwater starting, enough people will be able to do it that it becomes its own discipline. It would open up foilboarding to inland people w bad wind, just like touring SUP vs Surf SUP.

There are a lot more people doing flatwater starts than 100 people worldwide and I personally know a few.

Here's a video of a friend of mine that started foiling only a few months ago. He's not a pro or anything like that (he has a day job and pnly foils when he can). He is using the Axis Foils 920 front wing (Wing Span: 92cm - 36in / Actual Area: 1852cm^2 - 287 square inches / Projected Area: 1816cm^2 - 281 square inches / Volume: 3753 cm^3 - 229 cubic inches / Chord: 250mm):
www.facebook.com/watch/?v=421731365093410

Here's another friend of mine (he's been foiling since last year and he's really good at it) on his first attempt on the Axis Foils 1020 front wing (Wing Span: 102 cm - 40 inches / Actual Area: 2051 cm^2 - 318 square inches /
Projected Area: 2013 cm^2 - 312 square inches / Volume: 4161 cm^3 - 254 cubic inches / Chord: 250mm):
www.facebook.com/axisfoilsportugal/videos/321588832077043/?v=321588832077043
He can also do flatwater starts now on the new High Aspect 1000 from Axis (MAX CHORD: 160mm / ACTUAL AREA 1388 square cm / 215 square inches / SPAN: 1000 mm / 39.5 inches / PROJECTED AREA: 1310 square cm / 203 square inches / VOLUME: 1904 cubic cm / 116 cubic inches)

And last month it was the first Spanish Foiling National Championship. It was supposed to be a DW race, but since there was no wind they ran a 2 km race with wind or waves. Four out of five guys managed to lift the wing. I think 3 were using Axis 1020 (I'm sure 2 were, since I know them and the other one I think wss also using it) and another I think was on a GoFoil.
My friend ended up winning the race (despite being Portuguese) because he had enough stamina to keep foiling the whole way (I think he did 3 water starts during the race):
www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2446016629007426

So, my conclusion is wings can perform much better than what you expect and (almost) ordinary people too.

colas said..

Supnorte said..
My friend ended up winning the race (despite being Portuguese) because he had enough stamina to keep foiling the whole way

Well, kind of confirm what I say... these people are in the "able to win a race" category.

The guy on the first video only started foiling a few months before that video, is 42 years old, has a day job and growing family and only foils on the weekends (when he has time). So it doesn't seemed like a pro to me.

The guys on the Spanish championship are well over 40, except for my friend (35) and the kid that wasn't able to fly on the wing.

frenchfoiler said..
I think that what is saying is that those guys are good paddler, probably sup racer background.

Thanks frenchfoiler, Yes, that's what I meant. If you look at the vids (including the one I posted of Eric Terrien), they are not able to pump the foil (they do not reach the speed needed for an self-sufficient foil pumping), they only keep flying by sheer paddling force, which requires a pro-level paddling stamina and technique.

I know a lot of people enjoying inland flat water foil pumping, but they now all dock start, and with "lunch tray" minimal boards. I guess the size of the board needed to manage the feat of flat water SUP take offs makes it not enjoyable (and utterly exhausting) to sustain the flight by pumping the foil afterwards. So once they have the technique to keep pumping they tend to switch to micro boards, hence no more paddle, and flying is then still exhausting but at a level reacheable by most people.

So my message to gbrungra was not to focus only on flat-water SUP foiling, which seem hard and not enjoyable in the long term, and especially not be disappointed if he doesn't succeed: a paddle is not the easiest way to enjoy flat water foiling.

gbrungra said..
If shopping for the perfect board,

I guess you should never "shop for the perfect board" as a beginner in any discipline.

Just shop for the perfect board for learning to flat water start with a paddle first, and learn the base of pumping, maybe with some towed sessions (initial speed is key to maintain pumping). I guess any of the modern foil boards may work, but you should ask people able to start from flat water for advice, which I maintain is a very small number, and may be found more in the SUP flat racers communities.

Then you will switch boards for the next step of your progression. This gear resell well anyways.

By the way, what is your paddling strength? did you enter SUP races? did to practice rowing, canoe, kayaks, outriggers?

Again, this is not to say that should not try it. But to give you alternatives to enjoy foiling on flat water, the easiest path seems to first learn behind a boat or with a lift at a water park, or even use a wing sail for power, and get the pumping dialed once you let go the rope or depower the sail, and then learn to dock start. And if you can start with the non-pro wing, and then resell to get the pro.

gbrungra said..
I am a mid-30's, fit SUP paddler. I have been kitefoiling for 2 years.

Mmm, a good solution then could be to kitefoil with your SUP/Surf foil XXL wing with the smallest sail (I guess a tiny sail can power an XXL foil), and try to put the sail in neutral once flying and pump? This to get the hang of how pumping works, before attempting with a paddle?

I have just got in from my first session on the xxl pro wing. I bought this wing for wind winging but the surf was tiny today so I thought I would give it a try. A spot near me had a little peak before deeper water made the wave nothing more than a little lump. I used it with the largest 55 cm stab. It took of with ease as you would imagine but it also glided with very little input from me on the tiniest of lumps. It turned albeit slowly. It ended up being a super fun session. Foiling continues to amaze me!

A brave mod Sozz, looking forward to hear more.
Count me as also curious about the fitment of the Takuma mast into the Gong fuselage.

Just recently purchased a Gong XL pro front wing, 55cm stab / 80cm mast package. Can't wait to try it!
I hope they decide to produce some very high aspect front wings like the Go Foil GL's in the future.

Thatspec said..
A brave mod Sozz, looking forward to hear more.
Count me as also curious about the fitment of the Takuma mast into the Gong fuselage.

Just recently purchased a Gong XL pro front wing, 55cm stab / 80cm mast package. Can't wait to try it!
I hope they decide to produce some very high aspect front wings like the Go Foil GL's in the future.

it's the same fitment, actually maybe the gong fuse is a slightly better/tighter fit on the takuma mast than the gong to be fair,

i switch between the gong and the takuma fuses regularly depending on conditions using that mast setup.

it wasn't that big a deal to mod the wing, it didn't do what i wanted so i've tried to make it happen working with what i've got, definitely suits how i like to ride more now, hopefully the next sessions don't disappoint...

Oh I'm proning on a 4'8" colas, although I could definitely do with a lower volume more streamlined board for bigger waves, my current one is a handful to duckdive to say the least.

What carbon masts have you broken?

Quick review of XL pro versus XL standard for wing foiling. Background; I'm ~78kg, Blue Planet Carver 5'8" strapless, Duotone 5 and 4m wings. Riding the 65 cm mast and 45 cm rear stabilizer. Two seasons of kitefoiling background and about 6 sessions wing foiling so far. Flatwater riding in Outer Banks, North Carolina. For wing foiling the pro just feels so much better than the standard. Just had my first session on it in 12-19 mph winds. Feels like it will come up on foil as quickly as the standard despite 12% less area (I'm not a good pumper yet, but some improvement each session). The reduced drag is readily apparent when on the foil and even when schlogging off the foil. Speed and glide when on the foil is really improved over the standard for winging. I was expecting a much more pitch sensitive feel but it felt as easy to handle as the standard when winging. Low end feels just about the same but the high end added at least 5-7 knots, from seat of the pants feel. Ok it might not be at the GL or Albatross level (I haven't ridden either) but still feels great.

My jibes and foot switching are getting more consistent and I even tried my first few toeside to heelside upwind tacks. Haven't gotten one yet, but getting closer now with the improved speed and glide of the pro. Practicing pumping at 45 deg off the wind with a luffed wing for now. Of course the Duotone doesn't luff that well

If I try and roll the board really quickly from side to side you can feel a "little" mast flex with the 65 cm mast (I suspect the 80 would be a little worse) but with most carving (even fairly tight radius) you just don't notice it as much. I could see how Paddle foilers in much bumpier conditions would feel much more sensitive to mast flex. I'm still anxiously awaiting the Carbon mast/fuselage release.

Will be putting my standard XL and completely unused standard XXL up for sale here in the States. The pro XXL looks interesting, but we generally have enough wind here, and I'll hopefully stay light enough??, that it won't be necessary. It looks huge!

(My daughter worked at Kite Republic in Melbourne last season and is looking to work in Exmouth next season. Hopefully I'll be visiting with some gear to play with)

colas said..
they did not broke in half, I felt the cracks appear (sudden wobbles), one along the mast length

A bit like: www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,35459.msg408319.html#msg408319

Good feedback on the pro wings.
I am starting to wing and the flex out of the 80cm mast is driving me crazy. Would like a stiffer option that isn't Axis!

I wonder if they plan to do a super high aspect version soon.

rmitch said..
Does anyone know the new Gong Pro front wing projected surface area specs? Interested to know the XL and XXL as I'm trying to get a rough comparison to other foils. I've seen the shared google doc and I question the pro specs in there and can't find them anywhere on the web or Gong site. Thanks!

Projected,
XL 1773cm2
XXL 2609cm2

colas said..
The one-part fuz+mast+plate full carbon has been announced. Pre-orderable now, shipping early march 2020.
70 and 100cm lengths.
Threads on the fuz go all through, so you can screw the wings now both from the bottom and the top of the wing (by drilling holes), for extra stiffness in fuz/wing connection.
Only available with a plate, no tuttle.

This is 432 euros more than the alu fuz + mast + plate ( 599 euros vs 167 euros)


Details at www.gong-galaxy.com/en/product/gong-foil-allvator-carbon-pro-mast-70-surf/

well done gong

finally somebody is listening to me "one-part fuz+mast+plate full carbon".

next project is high aspect wings Gong?

colas said..

JEG said..
next project is high aspect wings Gong?

Well, the high aspect foil wings is the "Pro" line that has been available since August, unless you are meaning something else?

Full high aspect wings, akin to the Axis, Sig, GL etc.