The Gong Allvator SUP/Surf foil

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Stand Up Paddle Foiling Board Talk & Reviews Wing Foiling

Clamsmasha

311 posts

Clamsmasha

WA, 311 posts

6 Mar 2019 7:22pm

hilly said..
For the price you pay it should not be necessary to shim it. Poor design.

Pretty much every brand of foil on the market has some kind of issue with quality, design or poor choice of wings etc.

I had to cut and grind my Maliko stab to make it right. (Still love my setup though) Axis has a thick, slow mast and like the GF my mates are cutting stabs/grinding wing trailing edges (they love their setups) Naish had a very weak tail assembly, and has been very late with the xxl wing (they look like they go alright too) Slingshot is just as sloppy as Gong and has a weak flush attachment between mast and fuse.

Most of these brands are coming out of the same industrial parks in China, at least Gong is pricing accordingly.

Fishdude

315 posts

Fishdude

315 posts

6 Mar 2019 9:33pm

hilly said..
For the price you pay it should not be necessary to shim it. Poor design.

Less than 0.5mm... A single coat of spray paint can be thicker than what we're talking about here. ( could also be an option) It's a good tolerance Imo. But if you want perfect...

I imagine the Powder coating is going to vary in its thickness also. So what shims work on one guys may not on another.

Mwstard

93 posts

Mwstard

93 posts

7 Mar 2019 4:48am

Good point, noticed this difference on bikes

"Also, "mils" are 1000th of an inch, much smaller than a millimeter."
Doh! of course, this makes more sense. Always forget about weird non- metric stuff like this. In these parts "mils" is short hand for millimetres. Sorry.

Camarillo

369 posts

Camarillo

369 posts

7 Mar 2019 1:58pm

so 3,1 mils = 3,1x2,54/1000=0,07874 mm

Makes a lot more sense...

colas

5379 posts

colas

5379 posts

7 Mar 2019 3:21pm

Xavier Leroy at what is becoming the foil mecca of the Basque county, the scenic Saint Jean de Luz bay with its shallow reefs

Camarillo

369 posts

Camarillo

369 posts

9 Mar 2019 3:13pm

Camarillo said..
I had my first ride on the gong XXL...
My other foil is the NP Glide Large
My observations chronological:
-Nice travelbag!
-Wing is heavy compared to my NP wing but of course it is bigger
-NP mast is much wider
-Mast and plate mount are much lighter than NP mast and plate mount
-Screws are all M6 hex , all NP screws are M8 Torx
-No rubber pad on the plate like my NP, my JP 7'0 has some rocker curve at the dual boxes , perhaps not a good combination?
-Wing has a very loose fit on the fuselage, I would prefer to have to use
a rubber hammer , what can I do about that?
-Mast of my NP foil is much stiffer
-Out on the water: a lot more mast wobble than my NP, went in to tighten all screws but that didn't make a difference
-Conditions were very bad, small with chop almost as big as the tiny waves, couldn't get flying very easily but I sill have to make a wedge like I did for my NP and the mast wobble didn't make it any easier....

To be continued....

So I So I put some special tape on the fuselage to get a snugger fit of my wing.
I used tesa? 4287 Orange PP Strapping Tape thickness 0,079 mm
Next is taking care of the fit of my masts (I have a 45 and 65 cm mast) in the fuselage and the plate adapter.
Turns out my 45 cm mast has a nice fit in the fuselage and the plate adapter but my 65 has not!
Measured: the short mast is 14.6 mm thick and the 65 is 14.3 mm thick...
The 45 cm mast is just for summer , to catch small waves in shallow water...
So now I am taping the my mast at the plate and the fuselage and wait for the right conditions for my XXL...

To be continued...

One question: The plate has 8 holes which of them should I use to minimize the chance of damage?
I myself think I should use the inner ones...

Camarillo

369 posts

Camarillo

369 posts

9 Mar 2019 4:20pm

colas said..

Camarillo said..
I used tesa? 4287 Orange PP Strapping Tape thickness 0,079 mm

One question: The plate has 8 holes which of them should I use to minimize the chance of damage?
I myself think I should use the inner ones...

For the tape, I would advise something rigid and tear-resistant - like mylar - so that it does not risk tearing/bundling up like an old sock. On my US Box fins supergluing pieces of old radiographic film worked very well, or rigid mylar tape used to repair sails,

For questions like the holes to use, just email [email protected]

Tesa 4287 Orange PP Strapping Tape is very strong tape
I normally use it for making my Mountainbike rims ready for tubeless
But it is a pain to use tape especially if you as instructed disassemble the foil after every use!

You must have thoughts on what holes to use Colas?
A downwinder here in Capetown takes us 2 kilometers from the beach, 30 knots average winds, 10 degrees water. The thought of loosing my foil makes me nervous, that is why I want to use the optimal holes.
And perhaps more people want to know?

colas

5379 posts

colas

5379 posts

9 Mar 2019 4:47pm

Camarillo said..
You must have thoughts on what holes to use Colas?

No, I do not use the plate mount.

In theory, mechanically, the outer holes are the strongest assembly (it spreads more the forces on the bolts). But there is less material around the hole to prevent a tear in the metal. I would guess that all things considered the outer holes are the safest option but I really have no proof, so I'd be more comfortable with the Gong team giving you advice on this.

My personal opinion is that the weakest link is most probably the board and boxes anyways...

A foil leash with some thin dyneema cord seems a good idea (2mm resists to 500kg traction) for all foils in any case, attached to the rear leash plug.

If you are paranoid, maybe adding a metal bar (as a big washer) connecting 2 bolts and sandwiching the plate could be a good idea to spread the load even more. Or just using 8 bolts instead of 4...

Camarillo

369 posts

Camarillo

369 posts

14 Mar 2019 2:17am

Thank you for the video, as we noticed it is normal in this kind of mast. After it will be well screwed it won't be moving anymore. The slightly difference between the 45 cm and 65 cm is the painting cover. In the 45 cm is a bit thicker and in the 65 a bit lighter. It can change a bit the insertion of the mast but that is the only little difference.

The mast is totally safe.
photos.app.goo.gl/iVGU3ex7YbGhmAvc9

Hdip

472 posts

Hdip

472 posts

14 Mar 2019 6:29am

I've been using the Naish baseplate for almost a year now. (same baseplate as gong) I use the outermost holes on each corner and have never had an issue.

colas

5379 posts

colas

5379 posts

3 May 2019 7:42pm

This unedited 6mn boat wake ride is useful to get a feel on how the foil reacts.
This is the Allvator L (80cm), standard 45cm stab and 65cm mast. Rider (Patrice Guenole) is 100kg.
For instance, you can see the neutral handling: yaw or roll movements do not trigger rocking/pitching ones.

ankers

10 posts

ankers

10 posts

9 May 2019 6:43pm

Hi there

did anybody enlarge the holes in the baseplate to ensure an M8 screw fits instead of the M6 screws
In case you did, did you take the outer holes or inner holes

Don't understand why Gong does not make the base plate for 2 different screw sizes, so it fits all

thanks
ankers

Fishdude

315 posts

Fishdude

315 posts

21 May 2019 1:02pm

ankers said..
Hi there

did anybody enlarge the holes in the baseplate to ensure an M8 screw fits instead of the M6 screws
In case you did, did you take the outer holes or inner holes

Don't understand why Gong does not make the base plate for 2 different screw sizes, so it fits all

thanks
ankers

I didn't like the brass T-nuts that came with my foil so I bought 8mm and 6mm Stainless Steal T-nuts from "Foilmount".

The foilmount 6mm turned out to have MUCH better thread tolerances than the brass ones, and also have 50% more contact flat area. The difference in strength between the brass and the good fitting SS is very substantial.
The 6mm has the same flat contact area as the 8mm. The tension load rating of 6mm SS screw in a good fitting SS T-nut is likly stronger than the boxes can hold, so not much point in drilling and contersinking for bigger 8mm not to mention the material removed form the plate contersinking for 8mm screws. The SS 6mm T-nuts are just a better option than the 8mm IMO.

Oh yeah the extra screw holes in the plate give you more front and back positioning range. Most just use the outer most holes.

colas

5379 posts

colas

5379 posts

22 May 2019 10:52pm

The Gong shaper, Patrice Guenole, 100kg, not a kid anymore, in a session in 1' waves during the lunch break (buoy was at 0.3/0.6m 10s) on the Gong Allvator XXL in Britanny:

He says that now two thirds of the Gong staff (17 people) is now foiling.

JEG

VIC

1469 posts

JEG

VIC, 1469 posts

23 May 2019 10:59am

colas said..
The Gong shaper, Patrice Guenole, 100kg, not a kid anymore, in a session in 1' waves during the lunch break (buoy was at 0.3/0.6m 10s) on the Gong Allvator XXL in Britanny:

He says that now two thirds of the Gong staff (17 people) is now foiling.

unbelievable how he catches those tiny waves at 100kg, soo good to watch Mr Gong rippin it up!

exiled

367 posts

exiled

367 posts

23 May 2019 9:52am

How big is that prone board he's on?

colas

5379 posts

colas

5379 posts

10 Aug 2019 4:30pm

Some news on what is coming from Gong:

- already available: ultra light (no sandwich) EPS prone foil boards, starting at 2,8kg for a 4'5": The "Foil Matata EPS", instead of 3.7kg for the sandwich version.

- also available "longboard / cruiser" prone foil boards in 7'3" and 9'0" for ease of take off and a relaxed, cool glide. The "Foil Carter EPS"

- a full carbon one piece mast + fuselage, 100% compatible with all the existing Gong wings & stabs

- high aspect "pro" wings, that have less chord, more wingspan, but also half the Allvator thickness, and the main foil thickness pushed back: they are much faster, but do not work as well at lower speed and trickier to handle.

Here is the "Pro" Wing XXL 120cm wide:

and a glimpse of the carbon mast+_fuz. (with a current non-pro wing)

sweats

120 posts

sweats

120 posts

10 Aug 2019 5:54pm

Now that looks interesting Colas. Any info on release date?

colas

5379 posts

colas

5379 posts

10 Aug 2019 8:45pm

No idea.

From what I gather the production process is ready (the tricky part was to achieve small geometric tolerances to guarantee compatibility, always a manufacturing challenge for carbon parts), but the prototypes are still in the testing phase. So I guess it depends if the tests show that the design is ready for prod or if some tweaks are still to be made.

I have seen the prototypes, and the manufacturing is really superb.

Also, a video of Malo Guenole (Patrice son), a 14 years lightweight with a 7m wing in 9 knots wind, showing that a 7m wing can be handled even by small guys

www.facebook.com/patrice.guenole/videos/10220158340531076/

Filow

228 posts

Filow

228 posts

10 Aug 2019 9:03pm

Hey colas Nice to know ! I am
wondering if the Gong team
will make a new nice packaging for the new carbon T Mast. I love my GOFoil but the I have nothing to store it well or travel.

if Gong make a nice case that would be great !

exiled

367 posts

exiled

367 posts

11 Aug 2019 7:29am

So is that carbon mast going to be thicker and stiffer? It looks like it could be. My X-mas list is going to be way too long this year.

colas

5379 posts

colas

5379 posts

11 Aug 2019 3:42pm

Filow, I don't know. Good idea, though.

Exiled, no specifics yet but I guess so.

sozz

27 posts

sozz

27 posts

11 Aug 2019 5:43pm

colas said..
Apparently the "Pro" wings are in stock now and be orderable on the site tomorrow (Monday)

Any footage of them being used yet colas?

Filow

228 posts

Filow

228 posts

14 Aug 2019 3:01am

What about the weight ? And the surface ?

sozz

27 posts

sozz

27 posts

14 Aug 2019 3:49am

Filow said..
What about the weight ? And the surface ?

the medium is down from 1258 on the old wing to 1100 on the new medium 'pro',
old medium weight was 2kg, now 1.2kg.

Filow

228 posts

Filow

228 posts

14 Aug 2019 4:43am

Do you have the Data for all the new wings ?

colas

5379 posts

colas

5379 posts

14 Aug 2019 4:11pm

All the data is in their web page.

The wings alone float, although the complete foil will not.
"Techno: 50% Carbon 3K Wing, molded at high pressure on a foam core. It is not the lightest but it is almost indestructible."

A customer received his XXL pro this morning and posted a pic side by side with his regular Allvator XXL wing:

Filow

228 posts

Filow

228 posts

14 Aug 2019 7:03pm

Should be interesting to get a pic of the two wings from front

colas

5379 posts

colas

5379 posts

14 Aug 2019 8:21pm

Here it is:

With the review of its user, a expert in flat water foil pumping: www.instagram.com/hell_june/

(translated from French by me, with the help of Google Translate which is becoming surprisingly good):

====================================================

As promised a fresh first feedback of the XXL Pro 120cm wing

No video or photos, I devoted myself 100% to feel and analyze my feeling on the water and not to disperse to try to make images!

So first thing, the wing is aptly named PRO !!! It is not to be put in all hands and it will discourage the beginners in foil and pumping ... certainly it carries your weight more and it goes fast and stays in flight super easily, but it requires a much greater precision, positioning errors do not do not forgive!

Tested with the 65cm mast and Surf 45 stab then Kite 45 stab, the Surf tames it a bit but also slows a bit, the Kite stab allows for an incredible Vmax, once well positioned in flight the effort needed to keeping up is low and you save a lot in cardio and leg power required while traveling distances that are really significant, I do about 500m per run. We begin to arrive at a mode where we can in the space of a session of 40 min to make beautiful rides totallings everal km ...

In dockstart nothing to say except the necessary precision, it takes off quickly and you just have to be careful not to force the pump too much because we get ejected quite easily.

In beachstart a revelation, the extra lift gives this little extra that overcomes the added difficulty of this exercise with the classic XXL wing, this extra lift also means we need less depth to start as we can stay very high without effort !

In a nutshell I love it !!!!

exiled

367 posts

exiled

367 posts

15 Aug 2019 1:22am

I'm probably holding out until the carbon mast is available, but holy smokes is that new XXL is large. Gotta be bigger in terms of surface area than anything else on the market.

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