LeeD .... you said no boards ever have wide tails these days (ie evo dna) - and failed experiment etc ... and that you never ride a tail over 36 ... well - your not very well versed in modern shape details ...

Let's look at some ACTUAL facts about boards today .... Windsurf mag 2020 test

Fanatic Grip 86 - tail width 37.4 (this actually their narrow tail DTL board - stubby is the wide tail in the range!)
Goya custom pro 84 - tail width 36.4 (fully capable DTL board with good rocker )
Quatro cube 87 - tail 38.1 .....
Simmer flywave (quite a narrow gun like dtl shape ) - 1 ft off - 39 cm

Tabou da curve 88 - very long drawn out DTL looking shape - tail wdith 37.9 .... and length looks fairly long by todays standards - 230 ... before you shout photoshoot propaganda - Graham Ezzy would probably take something like this out to Jaws

And what was evo length back then 235 ish ?

You are getting things completely mixed up LeeD ... and shows yr ignorance on shape matters - Evo planshapes affected all future outlines to a certain extent .... No one rides 255 x 53's anymore ! ... You have FAILED to see that what maybe made evo so flowy and say mush orientated - was not only tail width - BUT FAIRLY SKATEY UNDER WATER CONTOURS - IE NOT MUCH VEE OR SINGLE CONCAVE DEPTHS ! ... That was an 'outlier' of shaping that maybe made it less locked in for dtl sailing .... you can have a wide tail - but lots of double concave or v and the board would track fine DTL - duh !
Also - have you EVER actually thought about the impacts of removing 5cm of pintail and turning into squash tail and how that impacts 1 ft off measurements - clearly you have NOT ! ... alot of these 'wide tail boards ' if you meassure at a standard point - ie back strap plug , and ignore 1ft off measurement - they are NOT ACTUALLY much different ... I have measured 2 examples accurately bearing this in mind - a starboard quad (you would say is wide tail ) , vs a you would assert - 'narrower' pintail of same overall width ... - widths at several points - strap plugs etc - are all virtually IDENTICAL .....

Again - you stating you've shaped boards - yet cant seemingly comprehend these differences ???? - shows a naiveness of critical thinking ...

What can be said - regardless of widths - if you remove length behind back strap - you remove some of the 'rudder like' bottom turn stability in bottom turns - that could be a general comment - yet mulitfins these days ADD some of that stability back ... (fins on rails etc)

and BTW , anyone who cant turn a board over 36 tail width is lets be honest a bit of a bagpuss LeeD ! , maybe knowing little of the technique to applying power to turns ... Im 76kgs , and can grind out solid turns on 40+ cm tails (1 ft off) if need be.... throwing spray etc , but I have a range of tail widths in my quiver - some days I take narrow , some days I wouldnt want to be on narrow tails - in fact - sailing narrow tail boards teach you nothing about power turns , if you can do proper power turns - you can do them on any width tail ... ! and Im not interested in turning boards that 'squirt' around a turn with little resistance ... you are never going to throw decent spray and feel that epic feeling of juddering power under your back foot ! ...

Narrower tails have their place/day (like all different design aspects) In my quiver .... on solid size days with powerful 15+ second period swell , and with slight side off winds ... But that is not real world stuff for most euro's / everyone else ... and Ive sailed all those spots up your coastline Lee'd , and most of the time they are not like that either !

Most influential game changing thinkers on windsurf board design imo ...

Dissasio (strapper shaper to JP early 90's)
Mckercher - shorter wider concepts to the masses (mass production)
Seadi - shorter , multifins
KT/Quatro - little mentioned BUT .... KT was the shaper who actually transformed Kauli's ideas into workable shapes ...

And ... Mark Nelson - why I mention his name LeeD - knower of everything on surfboard design with attitude ? blow me away with your knowledge ...

Can I assUme you guys actually lay down hard bottom turns into snappy otl cutbacks?

Here you go LeeD - laydown bottom turn on solid wave - harness line dragging ... sometimes boom arm grabs ... Enough rail engaged for you LeeD ?


possibly into a 360 , taka , aerial , or hack .... why don't you post some shots yourself ? . I bet most of the dudes on here could sail you into the ground ...

scott mckerc said..
I agree with Lee D
The Evo was a complete marketing hoax

this thread is has been my favourite thing in 2020 sofar . Just read over the whole thing . Omg- The gift that keeps on giving . Thanks leed lol

btw clearly the board is a modified surfski. Scott did a good job of handpainting the evo graphics in the bushes of hookipa . Don't tell anyone. bye

DunkO said..

Brent in Qld said..

LeeD said..
10 dungers out of the first 30 is actually pretty good!
Out of those 1st 30 included 6' x 22" what became"bunker" boards, 7' x 17" what became "Hanalei miniguns", 9'7" x 19 7/8 full gun, an actual "normal at the time 6'4" x 20 single with 4" sidebites, and a 5'8" twin with 6.5" fins.
Ist board was ridden in 1967. 5th was ridden by summer '67.
By the time I joined the Army in '70, had shaped 112 boards.
Shaped over 200 more after discharge, took up motocross in '77.

One picture is worth a thousand words. Here's how it works LeeD

I once earnt a living building boards for a nice bloke in Western Oz in the early 90's. Here is a picture of one being finished.


If you don't have any images, please just tell us & let us all move on. Thanks

That's a filth looking board!

They were great boards back in the day mate (board pic is probably a 93' - approx 8'2" X 21" x 12.5-13" tail, a twinnie @-6kg). Nearly 30yrs ago now and one of many evolutionary steps to what we now ride.

BTW had a look at the Nano2 & Mako range in Jan, categorically filthy.

hoop said..
Maybe we should start a LeeD appreciation thread so he can be free to impart his wisdom on us and show us all the wrongness of our ways.
In this thread he can share all his magazine covers and video footage of his illustrious windsurfing career.
I can't wait, it's gonna be awesome!

I think your going to be dissappointed Hoops

LeeD said..
Obviously, that pic is not an Evo by Starboard.
LOTS were sold, I know that.
Lots of Hypersonics were sold too.
But would you care to go back to either?

I've had both, the EVO I think 84. Not impressed, board was beyond me, most likely.
i ve had 2 Hypersonic's, both 105. 15 years apart. I liked it a lot.
sold both, deeply regretted 1st, jury's out in the 2 nd. Too many boards ,too sick, and not enough time.
the Hypersonic , I have enough but intriguing stick.

LeeD said..
Ratz, you Aussies are always bragging how great your waves are.
I will admit, Oz has great surfers.
Remember Nat Youngs 24" wide V bottoms?
Never worked at Pipe or Sunset because it was too wide! Honolua Bay waves wrap in from the NW and lose a lot of their punch, so those wide tubs worked.

Nat, Midget, McTavish, Lynch & Greenough (US / Aussie) all Aussies, great surfers and also great windsurfers too.

The wide tails worked brilliantly at Honolua in '67 and then it was on. Aussies tops then and now.

looking very flywavish jason...

One think I know, unless my memory play me a trick(it happens a lot btw), a production board over 80L was not turning well and were not popular in the past. The evo was the turning point of that era isn't it?

^^^ Sorry, I skipped past the text and went straight to the photo.
I thought LeeD had finally shown a pic of one of his boards. Then I realise it's just a potato.
My bad

Come on guys. Stop ganging up on the poor fellow. I'm sure he's a really nice person if you got to know him. ONLY JOKING !!!!!!!!!
I have no pity for anyone who can't see the error of his ways.

hoop said..
^^^ Sorry, I skipped past the text and went straight to the photo.
I thought LeeD had finally shown a pic of one of his boards. Then I realise it's just a potato.
My bad

It's not just a potato, it's an Easter potato! Unfortunately with a bad rocker line and too wide a tail

stonny said..
Come on guys. Stop ganging up on the poor fellow. I'm sure he's a really nice person if you got to know him. ONLY JOKING !!!!!!!!!
I have no pity for anyone who can't see the error of his ways.

If you take LeeD's point that basically a narrower tail is nicer for solid conditions - no one can argue too much with that .... (if I was LeeD's defence lawyer and representing him in court !) ... There's obvious some advantages to narrower tails - precision - control fast waves etc

The problem I think everyone has is when LeeD starts dismissing a wider tailed waveboard from 10 years ago as ...... a 'failed experiment' and flash in the pan .... no one adopted it-.... etc pushing a bad product etc etc - when evo pretty much changed planshapes going forward ... and now all of todays waveboards have wider tails than 10 years ago average ... Production Evo's pretty much forced the market to start tinkering with compact shapes - then Mistral bought out the syncro , tabou pocket waves , rrd wave swallows etc etc ... And they were all different from evo - they had he same wider tails , some had more v / concave / drive etc .... And when these planshapes combined a few years later with mutlifins we saw a REVOLUTION in weaker waves / side on spots and / or lighter winds ... Frontside riding in side on used to look a bit **** - now anyone can and does have a punt DTL ... as a result of more speed and ease of compact shapes ...

He needs to leave out the abusive comments , and the insinuation that anyone who disagree's with him is a **** sailor ... and think a bit more about the history of waveboard design - and how we got to current day ....

Come on LeeD - enlighten me why Mark Nelson was a 'quiet' innovator ...