Grantmac said..

That said in very light wind the fun is the technicality and efficiency. The LT doesn't offer those things, it's more like a sailable SUP.

Like a whole bunch of Olympians, some PWA world wave champions, freestyle champions and others, I can assure you that you're completely and utterly wrong. Things like "fun" and "efficiency" aren't purely objective qualities. It will come as a shock to you, undoubtably, but different people have different ways of having fun, and different people have different definitions of "efficiency".

Take rig weight; some of us feel that using a light rig is more fun than using a bigger, heavier rig - foiler fans seem to understand that feeling because they keep on telling us how nice it is to hold a small rig rather than a big one. Since foiler fans understand the fun of holding a light rig, why do you apparently believe LT fans can't like the feeling of holding a light rig?

Sure, a small rig like that of an LT may not be quite as quick as some rigs - but in terms of objective efficiency like speed for square metre in light winds it can come out way ahead of many other rigs. There is no one measure of "efficiency". Some people like a big rig, some like a small one - no one gets to judge which one is fun.

While LTs are not as technical to sail in certain ways, it would of course be ridiculous and untrue for anyone to imply there's no skill in getting one going at its best in light winds. They require as much skill to get to top speed as anything else; that's obvious or else the entire fleet would finish light air races together, and they don't. There's plenty of technique to work on in light winds.

I don't know if you've sailed in a race with a well sailed LT against a bunch of windsups, but having done so I can assure you that the LT is far quicker most or all of the time than any windsup I've come across. Not that means there's anything wrong with the windsups, of course.

If anyone prefers foiling, RBs, windsups, kites or gaff-rigged schooners then good on them, but it's weird for anyone to declare that they are the person who can decide what fun is. Why not just sail what you like to sail, and respect the choice of those who happen to like sailing other things?

The problem is that people are being encouraged to shell out +$3K for something which is pretty damn boring, to everyone I've personally met that's used one, when they could get a RB for <$500 that will outperform it in any conditions you choose to name. Or spend $1K on a foil that will blow past either one the moment you see a whitecap.

I disagree completely with a smaller, lighter sail being better in light conditions. I want something at least 8m and with a couple of cams otherwise I'm stuck hand sailing it rather than using the harness which is anything but fun (to me and everyone I know).

Foiling is a different story since they build relative wind so effectively that even a small rig has decent pressure once you are up.

Sailquik has it right, the Phantom 320 is a pretty decent board. It was my first raceboard, really good when powered on a reach and was significantly faster in light wind if you railed it with toe pressure.

Grantmac said..
The problem is that people are being encouraged to shell out +$3K for something which is pretty damn boring, to everyone I've personally met that's used one, when they could get a RB for <$500 that will outperform it in any conditions you choose to name. Or spend $1K on a foil that will blow past either one the moment you see a whitecap.

I disagree completely with a smaller, lighter sail being better in light conditions. I want something at least 8m and with a couple of cams otherwise I'm stuck hand sailing it rather than using the harness which is anything but fun (to me and everyone I know).

Foiling is a different story since they build relative wind so effectively that even a small rig has decent pressure once you are up.

Sailquik has it right, the Phantom 320 is a pretty decent board. It was my first raceboard, really good when powered on a reach and was significantly faster in light wind if you railed it with toe pressure.

You and your friends are not the only people in the world. Thousands of people who are buying LTs don't think that they are boring. Hos arrogant do you have to be so assume that you are right and all the LT and windsup sailors are wrong?

The fact that YOU want to sail with an 8 metre sail is only relevant to someone who thinks the world revolves around them. What you happen to want and what your friends happen to want is just the personal opinion of a few individuals.

I didn't say that a smaller, lighter sail was better, because it's not "better"; it's better for some people, just as an 8m is better for some people. I tend to find 8 metre sails crap, personally, because they are heavy but still much smaller than a full-size Raceboard sail, but I'm not slinging **** at you for your personal preference.

The fact that you and your friends prefer a certain type of windsurfing doesn't mean that anything further than that. It's just like the fact that you like your own taste in music, your own taste in drinks, your own taste in houses, your own taste in cars. Your own preference is nothing more than your own preference.

The fact that you liked the Phantom 320 is just another case in point. I and many of my friends have never liked any board around that length; to us, they are too big to be a shortboard and too short to be a longboard. But the fact that we do not like it does not mean that it's a bad board. Maybe the most significant thing about your mention of it is that it shows that you're not actually very experienced in Raceboards and therefore not really in a great position to slag off the longboards that others like.

There's nothing wrong, of course, with being less experienced in longboards, but there's a lot wrong in claiming that you know more about them than the World Cup winners, Raceboard Olympians and Raceboard world champions who love the LT and who you think are idiots, ignorant or otherwise too stupid to know that they are wrong in their preferences and you are right.

Sail what you like and just accept that you're not someone who has the right to sling **** at what others like.

sailquik said..

windsufering said..
Ok thats your opinion!
I kinda of like racing in fleets that are larger than 20 at my local club !
And you are telling me I'm not having fun LOL !
if you want a argument please come to the Aust windsurfer national titles in April at parkdale ,
we are expecting over 130 boards !
As for sail quick you can come and tell us why you hate the Wally class too.

You should change your handle to insufferable.

I have never, ever said I 'hate' the Wally class at all. I like the concept enormously and I have seriously considered getting the new LT (but I would like to have a chance to sail one first - none in my local areas ) It's obvious to all that it is a fun class with good fleet numbers.

I bought a OD design in the mid '80s as I liked the idea of sailing and racing with the strong Paynesville local fleet, but I sold it pretty quickly again as I found I far prefered the sailing characteristics of the comtempory Raceboards, and at that time there was plenty of Raceboard racing events. Thats just personal preference.

One thing that would REALLY put me off joining the Victorian LT/OD fleet is if there are others with bad, smartarse attitudes like yours.

Lol it's the biggest one design class in Victoria, you won't be missed
and you haven't been missed

windsufering said..
Ok thats your opinion!
I kinda of like racing in fleets that are larger than 20 at my local club !
And you are telling me I'm not having fun LOL !
if you want a argument please come to the Aust windsurfer national titles in April at parkdale ,
we are expecting over 130 boards !
As for sail quick you can come and tell us why you hate the Wally class too.

Cos they're heavy , slow , the draft moves all over the place when the wind increases and they stifle development in the sport. Got nothing to do with fun not fun argument

windsufering said..
Lol it's the biggest one design class in Victoria, you won't be missed
and you haven't been missed

Sadly, that response just reinforces my reservations.

Why is it the two trying to make the old LT popular again, seem to, with all their pimping, actually be turning heaps of people off them??
I think they may have forgotten the majority of wind junkies just do it cause they love it and its fun......not to go in comps to prove who is better----which is a tiny amount of riders and is not really a goal for most.

And time to ease up on the " but we are going to have 5000 LT riders in the next comp",
and in reality only 20 turn up. and then the winds to strong for them.

windsufering said..

sailquik said..

windsufering said..
Lol it's the biggest one design class in Victoria, you won't be missed
and you haven't been missed

Sadly, that response just reinforces my reservations.

am I missing something , we had this discussion a year ago and the only thing that has changed is the Wally
numbers have got bigger !

yes. You are missing the bit where the problem is you and your attitude, not the sailing craft. Completely missing it!

lotofwind said..
Why is it the two trying to make the old LT popular again, seem to, with all their pimping, actually be turning heaps of people off them??
I think they may have forgotten the majority of wind junkies just do it cause they love it and its fun......not to go in comps to prove who is better----which is a tiny amount of riders and is not really a goal for most.

And time to ease up on the " but we are going to have 5000 LT riders in the next comp",
and in reality only 20 turn up. and then the winds to strong for them.

We haven't forgotten that
most people don't race. The LT is not just about comps, just like other boards.

Few if any people get into comps to prove who is better. Most people do it for fun or to stretch their skills by sailing with others. It's a very sociable class and we only get irate when sling **** at it.

Its just untrue to claim that "only 20 turn up and then the winds too strong for them". If we get vocal it's because of lies like that. I don't lie and whine about the stuff you like so please don't lie and whine about the stuff I like. Surely that's fair and simple

Ant-man said..

lotofwind said..
Why is it the two trying to make the old LT popular again, seem to, with all their pimping, actually be turning heaps of people off them??

A perfect summary of how this and other related threads so often descend into a battle of the keyboards. Very entertaining but not good for any of the disciplines of our sport.

The issue is that when people start slinging abuse at any type of board - whether it's foil, LT, freeride, whatever - it's bad for the sport. So when it happens, then, should we just sit back, or should we reply and point out that all types of board have their place and should be respected?

Surely the ist productive and simplest way to avoid these battles if for people to stop slinging insults and start respecting the choices made by other people. It's really not that hard, and it's certainly more logical

Chris 249 said..

windsufering said..

sailquik said..

windsufering said..
Ok thats your opinion!
I kinda of like racing in fleets that are larger than 20 at my local club !
And you are telling me I'm not having fun LOL !
if you want a argument please come to the Aust windsurfer national titles in April at parkdale ,
we are expecting over 130 boards !
As for sail quick you can come and tell us why you hate the Wally class too.

You should change your handle to insufferable.

I have never, ever said I 'hate' the Wally class at all. I like the concept enormously and I have seriously considered getting the new LT (but I would like to have a chance to sail one first - none in my local areas ) It's obvious to all that it is a fun class with good fleet numbers.

I bought a OD design in the mid '80s as I liked the idea of sailing and racing with the strong Paynesville local fleet, but I sold it pretty quickly again as I found I far prefered the sailing characteristics of the comtempory Raceboards, and at that time there was plenty of Raceboard racing events. Thats just personal preference.

One thing that would REALLY put me off joining the Victorian LT/OD fleet is if there are others with bad, smartarse attitudes like yours.

Lol it's the biggest one design class in Victoria, you won't be missed
and you haven't been missed

Sailquik is a great guy and sailor. He didn't say he hated LTs and he'd be a great addition to the fleet.

He seems to be very concerned about how the class is going but I think he has a lot of personnel problems, I have informed him he is more than welcome to attend our sailing events and air he's problems, the next one is on the
8th of February at Chelsea yacht club it's a FOAK formate I'm sure you know what that is. For the normal folk
its where your 4 best sailors are handicapped against other classes. Guess what our vic fleet romped that in, boy
we were so excited, we also won the largest fleet award money was attached to those winnings too.
feel free to correct my grammar.

Paducah said..

windsufering said..

.... but I think he has a lot of personnel problems.

We get it that you are passionate about the LT but not a good look. At least try to keep the discussion on differences of opinion about various gear.

I totally agree with you, I wish others would agree with you to !

Ben1973 said..
Why do LT fans get so upset when anyone says bad things about them?

It's only really one

windsufering said..

AUS 814 said..

Ben1973 said..
Why do LT fans get so upset when anyone says bad things about them?

It's only really one

You must be missing my pics, commenting on every one !

What pics ??

At least Heavy Weather was a place for the angry to go to .