Great gybe around the top mark by USA remaining on the foil the whole time...bought them another 100m.

hmmm....lead back to 140 meters again. Does this mean the whole race was decided by that initial acceleration USA got off the starting line?

Oh well, see you all tomorrow I guess.

Those kiwi psychologists are going to be very busy Ted
what a turn around for Oracle since the beginning - emphatically dominating the starts and all facets of the race.

I feel sorry for the great Iain Murray who has been reduced to being the 'bad news bear' especially because I reckon he thinks the rules are a bit lame.

Macroscien said..

When boat speed and crew performance seems to be very similar everything comes now to:
Who has the best computer simulating team ?
If we plot wind speed at the grid over the race area and current, boat characteristic then there is only one fastest line on the water you could draw.
There is not much room to tactician to deviate from optimal route.
Also I could see role for small fleet of micro drones to take accurate measurements of the wind speed distribution in whole San Francisco channel.

1) You know wind is an entirely dynamic variable right?

2) Boats aren't allowed outside assistance by way of data or any form of communication after the start. This is obviously so humans make the decisions not computers and for costs reasons.

3) I reckon you should start your own series; Americas cup:fruitbat crazy edition.

Macroscien said..
When boat speed and crew performance seems to be very similar everything comes now to: Who has the best computer simulating team ?

If we plot wind speed at the grid over the race area and current, boat characteristic then there is only one fastest line on the water you could draw.

Sure, but the fastest line is constantly changing. Because wind.

There is not much room to tactician to deviate from optimal route.

Quite the opposite considering that the optimal route is constantly changing, because wind. See the last two races where the wind was so flukey. NZ caught up from 30 seconds behind by picking the right side/luck, and then by picking the wrong side of the course fell back another 500m by the next gybe!

Just have a look at the tracks they illustrated on TV. They were weaving all over the place trying to find a pocket of air strong enough to get them foiling.

You can see them here: americascup.virtualeye.tv/

Oracle's last run to the mark. NZ has one more gybe and has caught up (amazingly).



I guess at this stage they realise that they have to do two more gybe to get around mark 4, unfortunately. They can't quite point deep enough, damn it!

A moment later and Oracle is still foiling toward the last mark but NZ found a lull and never got back up on the foils. The tracks show them almost going backward looking for some air to get foiling again.



So Macro, which software is going to predict this in advance of the race?

Maybe you should write a prototype in a scripting language like THC or something?

I think NZ should forget match tactics, and just try to sail the fastest single route. Don't worry about covering the opposition, and instead minimise tacks and gybes and sail their own race. They have three races left, so one out of three, they have to get a favourable wind condition go their way. Might sound unconventional, but trying to match USA on boat handling and tactics just looks doomed from here on in.

evlPanda said..


So Macro, which software is going to predict this in advance of the race?

Maybe you should write a prototype in a scripting language like THC or something?

Good trial and eloquent analysis But the final conclusion not on target
Remember that Oracle that is actually computer software company and have the best brains on the planet already.
It could be complete waste of resource ( money) on hardware ( boats) if you don't have right software (tactician) to operate.

If I was adviser to any team first thing I could do will be creating as accurate as possible model of the wind distribution within required area.
Wind could be from any direction but race is carried on only when direction and speed are within very limited range.

Next , wind speed and direction may oscillate a bit but not so much during 40 minutes race.

Now knowing exactly what wind speed is /was at any location during that period computer could draw optimal path ( something like your car GPS do already for you).

Wind speed and direction my oscillate a bit but topography of the region not so much, Buildings, river, bridge stay most in the same place during this race
I am sure that traction could also use this information respectively for race analysis.
By superposition optimal and actual real path he could now see how close to ideal he was during the course.

Crew may not have access to the supercomputers during the race but don't need to either. Once created few models for wind conditions could be run on any smartphone or simply memorized (by playing on computer simulator for example)
.

Macroscien said..

CJW said..

Americas cup:fruitbat crazy edition.

You ignorance and arrogance is amazing. Luckily you have nothing to do with AC challenge more then watching on TV and posting sour comments.
Your comments doesn't really change a facts what Oracle and Kiwi team do to win.
YOU obviously on the same sour basis dismiss all weather simulation , aeronautics models etc All this super computers should be used in your opinion
to create virtual port to be then NBN fibred to your empty head.

Genuinely confused, obviously had the wrong cipher...

Anyway here's where I stand. I think once the race has started it should be team vs team, no outside assistance, pure human thought, skill and insight into getting the boat around the course. Why should you have a watch on your wrist with your proposed local atmosphere super model and sail purely to coordinates? A) That's not sailing. B) It would never work.

I also don't think it can be done. Like I said wind is so dynamic that you could never ever hope to achieve an accurate model of course position x at time t. The variables are just too large and too random. Sure, you could predict trends but so can Ben Ainsley so why start a supercomputer race for an entirely unnecessary reason?

I'm not proposing they mandate the use of slide rules, I have no problem with them using powerful computers to design the boats and crunch each days data, which they already do. However, I genuinely think your ideas are straight up crazy in terms of producing good racing. In terms of thinking outside the box, your sir have few equals.

Wineman said..

The Australians Americans have done it again.






Maybe if you just let us touch the Bledisloe once in a while....just for a tiny, weeny little bit,

we could get the Aussies to walk of Oracle & say we've done the hard yards, what about you Yanks have a go!

There are loads more kiwis than Aussies in the team - about 78 from last count ! Lots of quality Aussies though - a shame you fellas can not get your act together and have another crack without sinking your boat Maybe Palmer should fund that instead of the titanic - then if you won he would easily get elected.......

Subsonic said..

Ted the Kiwi said...

Wineman said..

The Australians Americans have done it again.






Maybe if you just let us touch the Bledisloe once in a while....just for a tiny, weeny little bit,

we could get the Aussies to walk of Oracle & say we've done the hard yards, what about you Yanks have a go!

There are loads more kiwis than Aussies in the team - about 78 from last count ! Lots of quality Aussies though - a shame you fellas can not get your act together and have another crack without sinking your boat Maybe Palmer should fund that instead of the titanic - then if you won he would easily get elected.......

We're just waiting for you kiwis to bring it closer to home, so we don't have to travel too far to get it back

Good idea ! We could start building our Oz AC boat now to get this trophy from Kiwi's one day
I would offer voluntarily my time to build it if any help. I could scarify and offer my electric catamaran for parts if that could help too.

Harrow said..

Great gybe around the top mark by USA remaining on the foil the whole time...bought them another 100m.

hmmm....lead back to 140 meters again. Does this mean the whole race was decided by that initial acceleration USA got off the starting line?

Maybe US pressurize their hulls to release that air blast in certain time? Just enough bubbles to pop on foils easier

Harrow said..

Macroscien said..

Maybe US pressurize their hulls to release that air blast in certain time? Just enough bubbles to pop on foils easier

Ha, after their earlier incident, who knows what else they have been up to. You just might be right!

BTW, are there any rules against filling the hull, or better still the huge sails, with helium?

or imagine following experiment . I always wanted to know :
If the fin or foil or even hulls have the same resistent from water if travel trought
a) clean undisturbed water
b) turbulent water
c) water / air bubbles mix - for example we could create channels and release compressed air bubbles in the front/top/or bottom of that foil or hulls.

The idea was tested at much higher speeds (and modern torpedoes could travel now in vacuum bubble with supersonic speed)
Many years ago already air plane wing have been tested with compressed air released over upper surface. Instant improvement in efficiency 10-15% due to laminar flow, but idea was abandon for commercial use due to maintenance problem. To keep perforated surface clean from clogging is not practical for everyday use ( but could be worth for racing

The America's Cup has been historically plagued by legal action.
Whilst I like Team Oracle for the Aussie content, I hope NZ pull off the next race to avoid the questions and potential appeals that would follow if Team Oracle lost on points and not on race wins.
Kiwi = Top boat builders, top sailors, damn good sheep sharers.
USA = Legal eagles, but given the press conference, don't think Jimmy would be happy with that.
In any case, this is the best boat sailing ever seen. Reports that the host city will even break even show that Ian Murray has got this absolutely spot on, especially given the scrutiny after the tragic death of Simpson from the coastguard.
Australia seriously needs to reconsider it's participation in this event, and I note that on WTV they are showing old races with ads about an Australian push to be involved.

OMG.......I am gobsmacked at how this has panned out from 8 - 1 down to now 8 - 7.

Longwinded, we were talking about that exact scenario yesterday and I hope it doesn't end up in court if ETNZ take it out from here. Can't actually believe I'm saying 'if' too.