I did a collection today of few items, plenty of sailors on site, everyone seemed happy with what they got and what they paid
The guys at lloyds seemed fairly easy going too
I had visions of possible kaos on site today and it was far from that
As has been stated before, most of the items were in fairly good condition, bidding was open to everyone and so no point bitching about someone who purchased lots of stuff
The prices were not dirt cheap so buying in bulk for resale is unlikely, and would not even be profitable
RUS ' You might find that one sailor did all the buying for all of his local sailing mates, this was so there was no confusion and bidding against each, i think that was a smart way to do it
RUS it was not a shop but smarter way for a group of lads to operate
If someone purchased more they need and put it up for sale i would have no reservations in buying it at the right price
ok i am done now
Lets go sailing now
cheers

FormulaNova said..

Mark _australia said..
I also can't believe Lloyds used stock photos of things, and distance shots, when the Grip was bubbled like in that pic
Thats fkd. Crooks.
Their "out" is that by law it is "able to be inspected" so therefore its buyer beware. Internet auctions allow people elsewhere to bid, they should have to make reasonable efforts to show faults.
.

Yeah, I think its a scam. With the internet these days there is no excuse not to provide high resolution photos of an item so that you can see the detail, let alone using the stock images.

I think the biggest rort in auctions is the inclusion of buyer premiums outside of the bidded price. I think most people forget about these and its only when they add them up after that they realise how much they have actually spent. I learned this at my first car auction, when you feel that you bought it at price X and then find out the fees add another $500 to it.

I have seen recently where a car was listed as a fixed price an hour before an auction yet the price they got when it went to auction was a few thousand above that price and then there were fees on top of that. Obviously the auction house want you to think you are only paying the bid price up until you win it.

Buyer beware, sold as damaged, photos provided, inspections welcomed, buyers premium quoted up front - So scam??? How so exactly???

With all due respects how the hell do you think Auction houses make their money? The stuff there is on consignment its not theirs. LLoydes will not own this stock or at best a different arm of their organisation may do.

We send the remains of film productions to auction houses all the time to get rid of it quickly when we are clearing out of a rental space or studio (mostly junk no one in house wants after we have had a sale for all the crew, think 80 half empty boxes of screws, or 10 paint splattered ladders, soggy tarps, masses of temporary office cables fans heaters chairs desks etc etc etc) we are happy to get anything at all for them basically to avoid tip fees, the auction houses make a % of the final sale price. They are not the vendor they are a facilitator, like auctioning a house, the real estate does not own it.

There are very few Auctions where an actual auctioneer stands over the lot with a gavel taking bids, people register place an absentee bid and go about their business and check in at the end.

As for images or details being poor - ALWAYS ALWAYS buyer beware, inspect before you bid and don't get sucked into a bidding war beyond what something is worth or you can afford, use your brain not your emotion. Many Auction houses only give a 2 or 3 hour window for an inspection at best a day or so before the auction leaving mostly only the secondhand dealers the only ones with time to get there inspect and place their bids. Most auctions don't let you test electrical gear, car Auctions in Sydney don't let you start the cars, its a risky game best left to the experts.

I'll bet there will be many second hand dealers who bid on gear at this auction (like they always do) and some of this gear after a wash and polish will turn up on EBay/GumTree/Markets/anywhere they think they can make a quid, as opposed to here on SeaBreeze.

Rus13b said..
so if 1 guy is buying 10 boards its pretty obvious that he has a shop, is going to fix them & sell
'them onto unsuspecting people. we should find out witch shops bought stuff & let everyone
know who they are. who was paying over $700 for the burnt up jp 150 foil board.
they will have that board in a shop with $2000 on it in a month.
the xc race booms going for over$1000 lol ha ha ha.
there wasn't much of a bargin to be had but shop owners don't give a **** if they can sell it
off as new after buying it cheaper.

Sounds a lot like sour grapes. So you found people were willing to pay close to retail as opposed to the firesale price you were hoping for? People went and inspected and paid up for gear in good order. So be it, move on.

We need to support our fantastic windsurfing retailers or they will go. Badmouthing them I don't believe is fair or nice.
Just my two cents worth.

peterowensbabs said..
Buyer beware, sold as damaged, photos provided, inspections welcomed, buyers premium quoted up front - So scam??? How so exactly???

With all due respects how the hell do you think Auction houses make their money? The stuff there is on consignment its not theirs. LLoydes will not own this stock or at best a different arm of their organisation may do.

The point I am trying to make is that it should be part of the bid price. Of course I know that they make their money from the buyers premium. Its pretty obvious.

Its also pretty simple to quote the bid price and then work backwards to determine the percentage of that that is the buyers premium and then the remainder. They don't need to own it in order to structure the bids this way.

I think full transparency is always better. You bid this price, then that's what you should pay if you win it. Not some number that is calculated after they accept the bid and then add their charges on top. If they were trying to be more transparent, they would include this as part of the bid price.

Imagine bidding on a house and then finding that the agents fee is on top of the amount you bid. 'Oh, your $400k house is now $435K thank you very much'.

In a similar vein, I absolutely hate the dodgy people out there that are still quoting prices only as ex.GST. Its illegal, but they obviously do it in the hope that people think their prices are cheaper and then they can add on 10%. After 20 years there should be no excuse, and if someone still does it now, they are dodgy.

FormulaNova said..

peterowensbabs said..
Buyer beware, sold as damaged, photos provided, inspections welcomed, buyers premium quoted up front - So scam??? How so exactly???

With all due respects how the hell do you think Auction houses make their money? The stuff there is on consignment its not theirs. LLoydes will not own this stock or at best a different arm of their organisation may do.

The point I am trying to make is that it should be part of the bid price. Of course I know that they make their money from the buyers premium. Its pretty obvious.

Its also pretty simple to quote the bid price and then work backwards to determine the percentage of that that is the buyers premium and then the remainder. They don't need to own it in order to structure the bids this way.

I think full transparency is always better. You bid this price, then that's what you should pay if you win it. Not some number that is calculated after they accept the bid and then add their charges on top. If they were trying to be more transparent, they would include this as part of the bid price.

Imagine bidding on a house and then finding that the agents fee is on top of the amount you bid. 'Oh, your $400k house is now $435K thank you very much'.

In a similar vein, I absolutely hate the dodgy people out there that are still quoting prices only as ex.GST. Its illegal, but they obviously do it in the hope that people think their prices are cheaper and then they can add on 10%. After 20 years there should be no excuse, and if someone still does it now, they are dodgy.

As others have said- did you even look, log in to the site, click on the lot and it tells you what you will owe with their fees included.

The pics were adequate in most cases with a few exceptions and those boards were early disclosed to everyone. Remember that it works both ways, with the pics they lost big time on one of my lots because they didn't post more pics. Neither the auction house or insurance company are experts in what they are selling, I think the guys did a pretty good job of learning what items were and identifying them. Ideally some more care could have been taken by the auction house but again they wouldn't be aware that many of the items are fragile, & it would have been nice at pick up time if items were stored in lot order.

Personally i'm happy with what I ended up with, I had a good look around there on Thursday & had a real hard look at the pics. Did the research to what stuff was worth and put a hard limit of the total price including their fee not being more than 50% of what I could purchase it for. By doing that I ended up with 13 lots, spent $640, adding up the price tags there is over $6000 of gear there, none of it is boards, sails or booms; the ones I was interested in went too high for me.

& I don't know what some are talking about, there were multiple retailers and non industry vendors that had bid on items and planned on selling them as used/soiled items.

Anyone know WTF is this????

Got it for $8. Has a price tag of $60 stuck on it.

Some type of extension from 45 mm tapers to 30 mm. Thought it was an extender, might be piece of a kids rig??????

$8 for a piece of Aluminum tube.

olskool said..
^^
A.Crevice tool
B. $8 well spent
C. Alloy version of a Pirates wooden leg.

Q : why are pirates called pirates ?
A : they just Arrrrrrrrr

mkseven said..
As others have said- did you even look, log in to the site, click on the lot and it tells you what you will owe with their fees included.

.

Well given that I specifically said I haven't looked at that auction, and I didn't say it was specifically about that auction, then you can assume that I wasn't talking about that auction. There are a lot of auction places that tack these on later.

This place has them upfront. Good on em! Its good to see someone being more clear about the total costs.

FormulaNova said..

cammd said..

FormulaNova said..

In a similar vein, I absolutely hate the dodgy people out there that are still quoting prices only as ex.GST. Its illegal, but they obviously do it in the hope that people think their prices are cheaper and then they can add on 10%. After 20 years there should be no excuse, and if someone still does it now, they are dodgy.

I quote prices ex gst everyday, so do all my competitors and all my suppliers, its the norm in a trade or b2b environment, still sell to retail but quote them ex gst as well, nothing dodgy or illegal about it.

If you are quoting only ex.GST prices without also quoting the GST amount or the total including GST, you are breaking the law. Simple. Don't believe me, look it up.

I'm happy to be corrected, but I'm pretty sure its the case.

Quote $XX.XX + gst, its the way everyone does it, so its not trying to pretend the ex gst price is the total price. If that's breaking the law then every business I trade with , suppliers and customers, are breaking the law.

cammd said..
Quote $XX.XX + gst, its the way everyone does it, so its not trying to pretend the ex gst price is the total price. If that's breaking the law then every business I trade with , suppliers and customers, are breaking the law.

Yeah, I get that. I have worked in business where they quoted ex.GST prices as well, but they were also covering themselves and generally making it very clear it was ex GST and then including an inclusive price as well, just in case.

I think the real dodgy ones are the ones that are not mentioning GST at all, which implies inclusive, and then informing you, 'plus an extra 10% of course'.

There are other board sport shops, that arnt industry leaders, that are in the business to make money. they will have seen
this as a great opotunity to do just that.
a heap of gear going bak to wa, good on use for doing it. I wont b buying anything from wa anymore.

If they arent making money they cease to exist & we cant get any gear.

Each lot included the following information:
Buyer's Premium: 22% GST Inclusive
Bid: GST Inclusive
Note: All amounts are shown in Australian Dollars $AUD

So that seems clear enough to me.
But I didn't buy anything so don't know what extra charges may have been incurred at final payment (if any).
Perhaps card transaction fee if paying by credit card.

Seems from this ACCC notice that they have been known to charge excessive payment card fees before, but so have other organisations like CabCharge: www.accc.gov.au/media-release/lloyds-auctioneers-pays-penalty-for-excessive-payment-surcharges

Am curious why the Buyer premium was 22% when other auctions I have attended charge 12.5%.
Some auction houses charge a fee to both the vendor and the buyer, not sure if that is always the case though.

Would also be interested to know if there is any checking done on these online auction platforms to prevent shilling:
aic.gov.au/publications/htcb/htcb015
www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2005/10/05/1467138.htm
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222558063_The_effects_of_shilling_on_final_bid_prices_in_online_auctions

DavMen said..

FormulaNova said..

Here you go:

lawpath.com.au/blog/do-you-have-to-specify-gst-on-a-quote

This site failed in Maths.: from their site

Example
A bottle of juice for sale in Woolworths is $4.00. It's safe to assume that this price includes the 10% GST markup. The GST amounts to 40 cents, with the juice on its own costing $3.60. If Woolworths were to display the $3.60 price, they would be breaking the law.

If it was $3.60 then it would only cost $3.96 incl gst ($3.95 if you round) for it to be $4.00 incl GST it would be $3.64 pre gst.

Hahahaha and Juice is GST Exempt!

olskool said..
FN, why bother going blah blah blah about auctions here? As you stated you havnt even checked the Lloyds site. Nor were you interested in buying anything.
You in trouble with the missus or something? Need to be heard?
Where is your relevance to this thread?

Funny, I treat these forums like conversations. You aren't stuck on one topic, and like any conversation they can stay on topic or drift off topic. The choice is yours. If you don't like what I say, don't respond. Its easy. I do it all the time.

Why did I mention the initial comment about auctions? It was a follow on comment from the point about the images not being the best. If no one wanted to read that, they didn't need to.

To tell the truth, I did look at the Lloyds site when I first saw the initial link go up, and I even registered. Nothing looked interesting enough to me to look any further though, especially when the images I saw were like thumbnails of a picture from somewhere, but not detailed enough to see what it really looked like.

The comment about GST also followed from the discussion. I personally hate it when some dodgy person tries to add on 10% when its otherwise a bit deceptive. I have had it happen so many times to me that I know its pretty common.

If no one bothered to respond to the mention of the GST, would we be talking about it now? No.

Do what you want. Its a forum!