Macroscien said..

Kazza said..
Kiters stay downwind of windsurfers so that when they jump or drop their kite and are out of control we don't get tangled up in their lines or end up like the poor guy in France. Common sense needs to be used more

+1
We are not really free to choose our own path or speed unlike power boats and even bigger sail boats.
Commonsense and general courtesy on the water plus observation of all other user behavior may help us more then strictly sticking to "right of way rules".
Sincere condolences to family of that killed windsurfer

this is a separate issue. but if, as a windsurfer, you are not free to choose your own path then get off the water or sail somewhere away from others. I mean i'm not the greatest sailor on the water but I am fully aware of how to choose my path.

sboardcrazy said..

Gestalt said..
when passing you must pass port to port. **(seems this is where it went wrong)**

I don't understand this one?

All boats drive on the right hand side, so to speak. Opposite of how we drive on the roads.
It's rule #1.

I think we've all come close to a collision once or twice, no? Hell, I've nearly hit a navigation pole.

Chris6791 said..



Its a shame this has turned into somewhat of a Kiter v Poley debate without a decent eyewitness account properly translated being put forward.

I don't think it's a debate, I think it's a discussion that's been needed so everyone knows where they stand so further incidents can be prevented. This recent incident has just brought up the reality of it all so it's on peoples minds, I don't want to be injuried from something that could have been prevented. I'm not trying to put kiters down I'm just trying to make it aware that things can happen when you least expect it in a split second.

evlPanda said..

Hell, I've nearly hit a navigation pole.

Did you check ? Maybe you had the right and now you could sue the pole for damages?

evlPanda said..

sboardcrazy said..

Gestalt said..
when passing you must pass port to port. **(seems this is where it went wrong)**

I don't understand this one?

All boats drive on the right hand side, so to speak. Opposite of how we drive on the roads.
It's rule #1.

I think we've all come close to a collision once or twice, no? Hell, I've nearly hit a navigation pole.

The "passing port to port" rule is directed only to two power driven vessels meeting on, basically, a collision course. (Colreg Rule 14(a)). With sailing vessels are approaching one another on a collision course, one on port tack and the other on starboard tack, the vessel on port tack shall keep out of the way of the other. (Colreg 12(a)(i)). There is no obligation for sailing vessels to pass port to port.

A link to the Colregs, which are the rules of the road unless there are local laws to the contrary, is here.www.collisionregs.com/MSN1781.pdf

It is important to note that there is an obligation on every vessel, kite board, sailboard, jet ski, 25000tonne container ship, even if the other vessel is meant to keep out of their way, to avoid a collision. You can't just mow someone down just because you think you have "right of way". (Rule 17(b).

Incident reports from marine collision investigations make interesting reading.

busterwa said..

I ran into the back of a 48 foot stationary cray boat

Sounds painful! and embarassing..

I sail at Long Reef in a southerly which is a popular spot for Kiters. I have up until yesterday had no issues at all (in 5+ years sailing there) and yesterday was purely a miss-understanding between a kiter and myself - we passed with plenty of space but only after we both headed upwind then downwind (you know the drill). After that incident we both waved to say sorry..

The biggest issues I've had at Long Reef is with a certain few sailors who seem to love charging towards you as they are heading in on a wave and I'm grovelling to get out through the lighter winds and shore dump.

Manly Council have put up signs all along the Manly beach explaining right of ways/surf etiquette. Maybe the AWA and AKSA should look into doing something similar at spots that attract a lot of windsurfers/kiters? It would also give us all an opportunity to have something to refer to if someone (windsurfer or kiter) is acting dangerously.

John340 said..

....

The "right of way rules" have been around since year dot and have applied to all types of water craft. We don't need any more rules.

....

Right of way rules for windsurfing and kitesurfing are an irrelevant joke. The rules are designed for slow moving craft engaged in transport or racing. They're not designed for groups of people blasting around at high speed in close quarters.

Most people have no idea of what the rules are. Those people who do know what they are describe them in meaningless terms. Port to Port? Really? Most sailors of all types have no idea what port is. Even yacht skippers stand there mumbling "There's no port left in the bottle." Does that mean port is left? or port is not left?

A simpler way of describing the anti-collision rules is "turn right". That handles all the cases, but even that will stretch people's brains. "Right is upwind. I can't go any further upwind. What do I do? Arrgh!!"

The best rules and the only rules that apply are:
1. Don't hit.
2. Don't get hit.

Those two rules can be further simplified to: Don't ruin somebody else's day.

The only problem with those rules is it requires people to take responsibility for their riding. It means you can't do the speed bullet of death through the pack just because you're having fun. You can't boost a big jump that will take you into the path of people. You have to go off and find your own piece of water to do it in.

Gorgo said..
Right of way rules for windsurfing and kitesurfing are an irrelevant joke. The rules are designed for slow moving craft engaged in transport or racing. They're not designed for groups of people blasting around at high speed in close quarters.

I disagree, as would anyone else who watched the recent Americas Cup.

Gorgo said..
Most people have no idea of what the rules are. Those people who do know what they are describe them in meaningless terms. Port to Port? Really? Most sailors of all types have no idea what port is. Even yacht skippers stand there mumbling "There's no port left in the bottle." Does that mean port is left? or port is not left?

If you don't know the rules, learn them.

Gorgo said..

The best rules and the only rules that apply are:1. Don't hit.2. Don't get hit.

As I said in my post, the fundamental Right of Way rule is even if you are in the right you have an obligation to avoid a collision.

Gorgo said..


The only problem with those rules is it requires people to take responsibility for their riding. It means you can't do the speed bullet of death through the pack just because you're having fun. You can't boost a big jump that will take you into the path of people. You have to go off and find your own piece of water to do it in.

Sadly I agree

BenKirk said..
I sail at Long Reef in a southerly which is a popular spot for Kiters. I have up until yesterday had no issues at all (in 5+ years sailing there) and yesterday was purely a miss-understanding between a kiter and myself - we passed with plenty of space but only after we both headed upwind then downwind (you know the drill). After that incident we both waved to say sorry..

Sounds like you both managed this situation very well. If you indicate your intent(to move to windward or leeward) early enough, then these missunderstandings are easily managed.

may be its time both assoications got together and nut these potential problem out I know on Botany Bay the problem is not kiters but jet skies someone will get killed one day

The Port/Starboard rule is fine for those who understand it, however it it is debatable whether this rule actually works in a kite/ws context, what is more important however is the requirement of any skipper of a craft on the water to take steps to AVOID a collision, thus it is incumbent for a skipper taking off from the beach on a starboard tack to AVOID a potential collision. Even if you are on a starboard tack you could still be considered partially negligent in the event of an accident and you had better have some public liability insurance or you could be in deep ****.

Gorgo said..

John340 said..

....

The "right of way rules" have been around since year dot and have applied to all types of water craft. We don't need any more rules.

....

Right of way rules for windsurfing and kitesurfing are an irrelevant joke. The rules are designed for slow moving craft engaged in transport or racing. They're not designed for groups of people blasting around at high speed in close quarters.

I think the coroner would beg to differ

ggh said..

Gorgo said..

John340 said..

....

The "right of way rules" have been around since year dot and have applied to all types of water craft. We don't need any more rules.

....

Right of way rules for windsurfing and kitesurfing are an irrelevant joke. The rules are designed for slow moving craft engaged in transport or racing. They're not designed for groups of people blasting around at high speed in close quarters.

I think the coroner would beg to differ

As would a Maritime Court.

Mark _australia said..
I think it is sad if anyone does NOT know the rules. You don't do away with the rules due to ignorance.

I think it is irresponsible if anyone does NOT know the rules.