Violent Crime Observation

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> 10 years ago

Shooting the breeze.

stamp

QLD

2797 posts

stamp

QLD, 2797 posts

17 Apr 2012 12:03pm

"a great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices" william james

Mark _australia

23647 posts

Mark _australia

WA, 23647 posts

17 Apr 2012 1:44pm

log man said...(where he quotes me a bit)

"Here we go again - if you state a certain group have some of it's members involved in crime you must be racist."

ALL racial groups have criminal members. The criminality of some people within that group has no bearing on the goodness or badness of other members of that group........ unless you think ALL Africans are car thieves, all English are skin head neo nazis etc.

" I feel sorry for those who don't say it like it is, due to some sense of what you "can't say cos it is not politically correct". NO, it's not that we're bound by "political correctness".........what ever that is. It is because issues like these are rarely as simple as you want to make out. I have no doubt that there are African gangs, and I have no doudt that there are middle eastern crime families, Italian mobsters, etc etc. But what are you trying to say about those races? What you're trying to infer is that there are African gangs ...Africans are violent...Africans shouldn't be allowed into Australia....multiculturalism is wrong etc. You're grasping at straws trying to link one thing with another with another. You might think you're some kind of maverick guy who calls a "spade a spade" and you're standing up against "political correctness" or something but what you're really doing is plain old racism, garden variety dumb racism.

Sorry logman I implied none of the above and you know it.

The original poster said that he has noted it appears to be the case that many recent violent crimes are perpetrated by certain groups.
I agree. Where did I say I hate them / think they should go home / tar them all with the same brush?

I propose another :
90% of hi level fraud in Australia is perpetrated by WHITE people.
Do I now hate them too?
Is it wrong to say that?

evlPanda

NSW

9207 posts

evlPanda

NSW, 9207 posts

17 Apr 2012 4:17pm

^ While you didn't say you hate them/tar them all with the same brush etc. you certainly implied that you find different cultures and backgrounds in Australia a big problem. And I don't know anybody that likes problems, or wants more of them

Mark _australia said...

Greenpat / P.R:
Let's say bikie gangs are a problem in any given capital city. They are all white members, and as we know about 80% of the population is caucasian.

So out of the 80% of the population who is caucasian, in Sydney we have about 500 people who are active members of a defined organised crime gang (bikies)

Then we have certain persons of middle eastern decent who are only about 1-2% of the population of the city. They also have 500 people who are active members of an organised crime gang.

That means per capita, more of that race are undertaking serious unlawful activities.

Would it be racist to state that? Is it racist if it is true?

Those numbers are just rough guesstimates.... but:

Dude, with all due respect, you're just wildly guessing at numbers and coming to a conclusion that persons of middle eastern decent are 50-100 x more likely to be involved in a criminal gang, based on your wild guestimates.

Your wild self-assertion is based purely on race.

Mark _australia said...
Sometimes we need to put aside political correctness and ascertain if one group is more criminally active, and if so state that as fact and target the problems.... not shy away from reality in case we are labelled as racist.

But you are clearly calling wild guesstimates fact.
Again, wild guesstimates.

You have to ask yourself, seriously, why you are exaggerating the numbers so insanely/pulling them out of the air, then calling them fact.

...perhaps the reason is... ?

evlPanda

NSW

9207 posts

evlPanda

NSW, 9207 posts

17 Apr 2012 4:24pm

Let's cool down a bit eh?

I don't think anybody on here is flat-out black and white racist. Everybody is a shade of grey. There is good and bad in each culture, each person, nobody is equal, everybody is equal, yada yada yada. There is just the little windows on life we call our own, personal experience.

Peace out. Hug a tree. Smoke a weed. Help a brother. Watch a sunset. Blah blah.

Lighten up:

P.S. I got Charlie Murphy tickets for Thursday night

SP

10982 posts

17 Apr 2012 2:25pm

Statistics...

Released today for anyone interested.

www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/rise-in-drive-by-shootings-40-per-cent-spike-a-serious-concern-20120417-1x4o5.html

And the actual results Summary

www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/bocsar/ll_bocsar.nsf/pages/bocsar_mr_rcs2011

Mark _australia

23647 posts

Mark _australia

WA, 23647 posts

17 Apr 2012 10:20pm

'panda I did not pluck figures or make wild assertions.

I said: "let's say......"
It was a hypothetical. I never pretended them to be true

If those numbers were true, and 100% verifiable, the loony left would still call me a racist for stating fact - and that was my point.

From my googling I can't find numbers on actual numbers of ethnic gang members.
However, if the police say it is a problem, and the prisons officers say it is a problem.... who are you or I to say the anecdotal evidence from them is totally wrong?

Now even if we have no numbers at all for Lebanese crime gangs....
Think about it - if there are 500 bikies in Sydney (whities) then there should be, based on population data, about 15 - 20 Lebanese persons involved in similar organised crime. Considering 1100 arrests of Lebanese males by the Gang Task Force in a year in NSW (and that is verified) - I don't think there is only 15 - 20 Lebanese males involved in serious crime.
That extrapolation is pretty simple math dude.

Open your eyes ......

cisco

QLD

12365 posts

cisco

QLD, 12365 posts

18 Apr 2012 12:28am

evlPanda said...
And I don't know anybody that likes problems, or wants more of them.

I like problems. They constitute a sign of life.

There is a place a few blocks from us that has about 30,000 people in it that have no problems.

It is the cemetery.

If you have problems and you don't like it, guess what??

They are gonna get WORSE, so stop sucking your thumb and get on with it.

All credit and apologies to Charlie TREMENDOUS Jones.

GreenPat

QLD

4103 posts

GreenPat

QLD, 4103 posts

18 Apr 2012 12:35am

cisco said...

I like problems. They constitute a sign of life.

I like problems, I solve them for a living (technical ones, with lots of numbers and stuff).

Wait what... Out of context... carry on...

cisco

QLD

12365 posts

cisco

QLD, 12365 posts

18 Apr 2012 1:08am

jusavina said...
Wasn't your grand grand grand grand grand grand grand parent a criminal when he arrived in Australia?

No. Mine was a trap who arrived here in the third fleet. A resident of Belfast and a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo, he was obviously offered a new life in the antipodes.

Assuming that all English stock Australians are descended from convicts is "cultural cringe" and justification for some to behave in the worst manner as though they have a "genetic tendency" towards it and are therefore excused from it and are seen by themselves and unfortunately, magistrates, as victims of their circumstance.

What bollocks??

There are good and bad in any ethnic group. Unfortunately for Australia successive governments of either persuasion seem to have a policy of accepting mostly the bad ones of any ethnic group for immigration.

Woe is us. We got the very worst of the Welsh and the Scots and they ended up in Canberra running the country.

cisco

QLD

12365 posts

cisco

QLD, 12365 posts

18 Apr 2012 1:21am

evlPanda said...

^ (I'm being quoted out of context there btw. Missing sarcasm)

Sorry. Maybe I missed the tone of voice.

You said what you said and rightly I assumed you meant what you said.

Razzonater

2224 posts

Razzonater

2224 posts

25 Apr 2012 5:25pm

I hate everyone equally that way I'm ignorant and arrogant but not racist I do however have a certain hatred for goat boaters particularly the dude at trigg point who snakes you than calls you off and goes straight you know who you are goat boats aren't credible never were never will be all goat boaters reading this this is a crime against a small but loud minority may you lose your paddles and get lipped in the head amen

Stitch

83 posts

Stitch

WA, 83 posts

26 Apr 2012 11:32pm

RPM said...

And this is suprising??

When you have people such as Sudanese/Africans who are used to the law of the gun and who also are brought up by forcibly taking what they need to survive how would you intergrate them into a western society? Keeping in mind they are unemployed, have no money, easy access to drugs, cant work due to visa requirements, get bored and have the 'take what I want' mentality...

They bring their ways here and then crime blows out and we as Aussie's accept this and keep welcoming them with open arms. Eventual 6ly it's going to catch up with us and the problems encountered in SW Sydney will be in every major city in Australia.. They multiply like rabbits and then the cycle begins breeding more generations of criminals.

Interesting read below...

www.adelaidenow.com.au/nocookies?a=A.flavipes

Quoting this one to make sure it is preserved for the Aussie inbred racist hick chronicles in the future.

doggie

15849 posts

doggie

WA, 15849 posts

27 Apr 2012 12:30pm

Stitch said...

Quoting this one to make sure it is preserved for the Aussie inbred racist hick chronicles in the future.

If they have no money, how do they get the drugs?!?

Gunna1

154 posts

Gunna1

154 posts

27 Apr 2012 12:54pm

doggie said...

Stitch said...

Quoting this one to make sure it is preserved for the Aussie inbred racist hick chronicles in the future.

If they have no money, how do they get the drugs?!?

I am sure your'e not that niave. They become mini dealers and skim off the top which keeps the cycle going. When people say forget the small fry and go after the Mr Big's in the drug trade they are forgetting that without the small fry the food chain collapses. So the police need to go for the drug trade at all levels. Maybe many of these minorities get involved in the illegal trades because that is what they are used to!

evlPanda

NSW

9207 posts

evlPanda

NSW, 9207 posts

27 Apr 2012 3:19pm

...or they could make the trade worthless.

Cowen and Tabarrok, Modern Principles of Economics, page 60 said...

The more effective prohibition is at raising costs, the greater are drug industry revenues. So, more effective prohibition means that drug sellers have more money to buy guns, pay bribes, fund the dealers, and even research and develop new technologies in drug delivery (like crack cocaine). It's hard to beat an enemy that gets stronger the more you strike against him or her.

~~http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Principles-Economics-Tyler-Cowen/dp/1429202270~~

Oops, wrong thread.

evlPanda

NSW

9207 posts

evlPanda

NSW, 9207 posts

27 Apr 2012 3:41pm

Mark _australia said...

'panda I did not pluck figures or make wild assertions.

I said: "let's say......"
It was a hypothetical. I never pretended them to be true

If those numbers were true, and 100% verifiable, the loony left would still call me a racist for stating fact - and that was my point.

From my googling I can't find numbers on actual numbers of ethnic gang members.
However, if the police say it is a problem, and the prisons officers say it is a problem.... who are you or I to say the anecdotal evidence from them is totally wrong?

Now even if we have no numbers at all for Lebanese crime gangs....
Think about it - if there are 500 bikies in Sydney (whities) then there should be, based on population data, about 15 - 20 Lebanese persons involved in similar organised crime. Considering 1100 arrests of Lebanese males by the Gang Task Force in a year in NSW (and that is verified) - I don't think there is only 15 - 20 Lebanese males involved in serious crime.
That extrapolation is pretty simple math dude.

Open your eyes ......

I know full well there is a Lebanese crime gang problem. Common knowledge. I'm just a stickler for actual numbers. I'm not sure what it is like over in WA but there are a lot of non anglo saxon bikies in QLD, they ain't all "white".

~185,000 Lebanese in Sydney.
4.6 mil people in Sydney
4%

What's the anglo-saxon population of Sydney? 100? Haha, not it's probably about half. 2mil.
(Interestingly the percentage of population born outside Australia in Melbourne 3000 is 80%)

so...

There are about 10x as many "white fellas" as "Lebos".

Nobody will be surprised if the stats are skewed toward Lebanese crime, but how much actually is it? I don't know. And importantly why put all immigrants in the same group? Violence can come from any society, look at modern Germany early last century.

Browse:
~~http://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Lawlink/bocsar/ll_bocsar.nsf/pages/bocsar_crime_stats~~

I mean who's to say men in general aren't a blithe on our society? The statistics very, very, very clearly support that statement. Once you're on the graph look down and there's an option for 'alcohol related'. Alcohol has it's very own filter. I think we're just avoiding the tougher questions.

king of the point

1836 posts

king of the point

WA, 1836 posts

27 Apr 2012 4:39pm

Then those bastards paddle out , rig up , pump up,drop in, and drink your piss, bum a smoke, and the gas from my fkn lighter then try to calling you mate.

Not racist at all.

Beaglebuddy

1595 posts

Beaglebuddy

1595 posts

27 Apr 2012 5:58pm

I thought Australia had strict gun control therefore eliminating gun violence, I must have been mistaken.

Mark _australia

23647 posts

Mark _australia

WA, 23647 posts

27 Apr 2012 6:15pm

king of the point said...

Then those bastards paddle out , rig up , pump up,drop in, and drink your piss, bum a smoke, and the gas from my fkn lighter then try to calling you mate.

Not racist at all.

Reminds me, I owe you 6 cigarettes

sn

2775 posts

WA, 2775 posts

27 Apr 2012 6:21pm

Beaglebuddy said...

I thought Australia had strict gun control therefore eliminating gun violence, I must have been mistaken.

gun control really works- just ask the British!

stephen

mineral1

4564 posts

mineral1

WA, 4564 posts

27 Apr 2012 8:14pm

Beaglebuddy said...

I thought Australia had strict gun control therefore eliminating gun violence, I must have been mistaken.

Baw,Haw,Haw,Haw,Haw
Maybe for honest everyday citizens, Australia has. Its a bit like door locks. They only keep the honest people out.

Scotty88

4214 posts

Scotty88

4214 posts

27 Apr 2012 8:39pm

Beaglebuddy said...

I thought Australia had strict gun control therefore eliminating gun violence, I must have been mistaken.

you know what they say "If you outlaw the guns, only the outlaws have them"

Mark _australia

23647 posts

Mark _australia

WA, 23647 posts

27 Apr 2012 9:51pm

Hey c'mon fellas gun control is good. I believe in gun control.

I will control my gun, you control yours.

evlPanda

NSW

9207 posts

evlPanda

NSW, 9207 posts

30 Apr 2012 4:02pm

Mark _australia said...

Greenpat / P.R:
Let's say bikie gangs are a problem in any given capital city. They are all white members, and as we know about 80% of the population is caucasian.

50% in Sydney. I suspect even less in Melbourne.

Increasingly, the modern bikie is likely to be in his 20s or 30s and of Middle Eastern or Eastern European descent
www.heraldsun.com.au/nocookies?a=A.flavipes

I'm not sure whose point this proves and/or disproves or not.

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