In case no one has noticed - there aren't many windsurfers left these days (nice uncrowded wave sailing experiences are a benefit though)Its not like we have thousands and thousands of wave sailors that can feed into all these mythical niche boards (like "front foot / back foot" boards and onshore / cross shore boards
-- all the good boards i have had since 1991 worked well regardless of wind angle so can we please drop the cross / onshore board grouping -You can get around cross shore onshore dynamics quite easily by rigging tweaks (a bit less downhaul / outhaul for onshore, a bit more as the angle gets "better" - although this too is contentious I DEFINITELY prefer some more cross on shore angles to some more side or side off angles - especially if you enjoy jumping.-


Things started to go really wrong when multi fins came in and sailors started to define boards by the fin set up (tip - its about 3rd or 4th down the list on ride influence after rocker, rail profiles and length set ups) and you had crew wrecking their ride by setting up fins wrong

or wrecking their experience by spending 30% of the day fiddling with fins to get them right.

The amount of crew sitting on the beach 2010-2014 (missing the hour or so of good wind because they were fin fiddling) was crazy-Nothing wrong with multi fins at all per se
(i have never ridden a well set up quad, thruster, twin, bonzer or single that i didn't like)

It was the context into which they came into the market - along with a lack of set up advice (or wrong advice - remember the large fin forwards Quad that was introduced around 2010? - hint - it didn't work! )that made things more confusing to a shrinking market.By breaking wave windsurfing down into overcomplicated sub groups and mythical styles you do the sport a dis service.

It just gets too confusing and your potential customer is just going to go wing foiling, kiting, surfing, to the pub or buy a new PS4. (and write off windsurifng to all their mates - its already happening just like when windsurfers switched to kiting (and wrote off lame windsurfing to all their mates) or to foiling (and now we are known as "slappers" )
-
To protect and grow the sport and look after those who are left: We need fast planing, balanced all round boards that do everything well. (they do exist) where you know exactly where the sweet spot is for the mast track and the fin set up without having to experiment. You just go straight out on your new board and it feels awesome from the first minute. (So you aren't getting smashed by everyone else upwind, struggling to get the board to plane, cant get jumps and unable to catch waves)
-
Modern Wave sails have fantastic range, weight ,durability and feel these days and when that range is used with a magic board the modern experience is awesome. For me, it is super simple.
-
That Magic board planes up fast, has great grip and drive and turns well.

Well it seems people do want a slightly earlier planing board for onshore / beachies and a more turny board (and they don't mind at the expense of early planing) for say Ho'okipa.

All the OP asked basically was here is a list of boards I like, what turns as good as them but still planes up nice n early.

Imagine if you had 30 choices and all had "waveboard" written on them with no further info. So we discuss here and people try to describe the feel. Look how convoluted it got.

But Manuel you can just go to the shaper and tell them what you want. They interpret that into the shape (and maybe have a board for you to test) so just trust them

I don't think it got convoluted. There were some points raised and some good discussion with some good answers followed.

why do you want a front foot board.

Mr Hooper said..
Of all the boards I've ever built in my life, I've never had anyone come to me and ask for a front footed board or back footed board.
This is why I don't think it's even a thing to consider.

yup, i thought asking the question may at least unearth what is driving the thought process. if we understand that then we can expand the conversation.

I re-read the beginning of the topic. It's all there.

My spot's conditions are side-side-on to side sometimes. I don't bother going front side in side-on conditions (farther upwind) unless it's really windy.

The good section being downwind is a bit wind shadowed. Sailing bigger is an option. I prefer smaller sizes for reactivity and fun.

Carving is my thing engaging the full rail. I'm barely sailing side conditions but I try to make the most out of the half decent peaks we can get.

If I could, I would ride a fast freewave out and a good wave board back in.

Mr Hooper said..
Of all the boards I've ever built in my life, I've never had anyone come to me and ask for a front footed board or back footed board.
This is why I don't think it's even a thing to consider.

but , they do Kinda exist ??? .... Example - starby quads most years - wouldn't describe as a front footed board at all (if you want to get the best from it ) - if you lean hard and forwards on them a bottom turn they just don't like it , kinda get squirmy ... (I've owned / sailed 4 models 77/82/84/87 ) , slow down on wider section , don't grip too well on the fwd sections of rail etc ... bottom turn entry for best results = really even pressure on legs / sail at a certain angle - then tighten quickly Backfoot ... (think also squash tail plays a part here ) . Not a good or bad thing - just a style of riding - Ive got a few in the quiver I still like riding in certain conditions , but VS say that KP model starboard - total different riding style ....

As comparison - Ive sailed a stack of waveboards / own them now , that you can slam in super hard over the front leg bottom turn entry - grip super well front footed , keep speed really well front footed , or do any combo or manner of weight angles transfers .... basically respond well to any / every style - front / back and side to side ... !!

What about the nano - with the tail kick (and straighter fwd rocker / entry ?? ) - wouldn't that be primarily a 'backfooted ' riding machine .... (haven't sailed it - could be totally wrong on that ... )

..... wether this is related to what M7's talking about - not too sure - , but these front/back foot biases DO exist imo

Manuel7 said..
I re-read the beginning of the topic. It's all there.

My spot's conditions are side-side-on to side sometimes. I don't bother going front side in side-on conditions (farther upwind) unless it's really windy.

The good section being downwind is a bit wind shadowed. Sailing bigger is an option. I prefer smaller sizes for reactivity and fun.

Carving is my thing engaging the full rail. I'm barely sailing side conditions but I try to make the most out of the half decent peaks we can get.

If I could, I would ride a fast freewave out and a good wave board back in.

i think you should try to demo the 82lt 2022 ultra kode, goya custom 3, patrick qt wave.
usually front foot biased boards have the wide point further forward. from what i am reading that's what you are looking for.

if i were designing you a board i'd start with a more traditional fish outline and short overall length, wide point forward.
fast continuous rocker with plenty of V
single concave nose into double concaves to flat V.
thruster quad fins.

A friend of mine will let me try his custom 3. He has both the 81 and 91.

There was a used 86 for sale but at only 58cm wide I wasn't sure it'd work for light wind compare to what I already have.

I'm still tuning my One. Moved straps and fin, it worked better from what I could tell.

I think the when people talk about front and back foot boards they get miss information from lots of various sources.

Windsurf magazine for example is constantly on about front or back foot orientated boards.
Below is their test of the 2020 Nano 87.

" The required stance will take time for some to adjust to, but when riding, whether cross-on or cross-off, the Nano thrives on being driven hard and aggressively through the back foot like a surfboard and is capable of making the tightest sections. Rather than setting the Nano on the rail and heading down the line and redirecting, the Nano prefers a more active approach - you need to wait on the wave until the last moment, before driving through turns confidently and pushing all your might through the tail. ".

I think when most people talk about them they mean more stubby, parallel railed boards that you can finish the turn off netter with a bit of back foot pressure, which you can also do with a more old school style of wave board too but less people do it as they turn smoother in a more constant radius.

Below is the full test.

www.windsurf.co.uk/severne-nano-87l-2020-test-review/

That review put me off getting a nano.
But after test riding one last summer
It just flowed really naturally from a front foot bottom turn to a back foot snap off the top.

Manuel7 said..
A friend of mine will let me try his custom 3. He has both the 81 and 91.

There was a used 86 for sale but at only 58cm wide I wasn't sure it'd work for light wind compare to what I already have.

I'm still tuning my One. Moved straps and fin, it worked better from what I could tell.

What are you looking for in lightwind, comfortable floating or early planing?
For early planing the 86 should work fine, german SURF magazine tested it very good for planing but found it a little stiff for turning.
This may be different for the 81 or 91 because they have a rounder outline comparing max. width to ofo.
The 86 is quite "parallel" and to turn you need curve, either rocker or outline.
My C3 98 btw. is far from "stiff" but also has quite a round outline compared to the smaller sizes. And also significantly more rocker than his predecessor the Thruster 99, which had a rockerline like the One Freewave 105/115 from Goya.

Manuel7 said..
Everyone's input makes sense. We all sail different venues, different conditions and with different styles.

Generally strong winds and decent waves will make any board and any style work. Lower the wind, mess up the waves and that's when things get challenging.

On the subject of the custom 3 apparently some years were better than others in terms of productivity.

Speaking of productivity, just to spice things up , one thing we didn't discuss is "wave count".

Wave Count... Well I have noticed some guys that tack onto a wave when some one is already on the swell from further out have a higher wave count. So being able to tack and arrogance gets a higher wave count regardless of what board you have.

I was looking for passive planing. The One isn't so passive but responds well to pumping and mast foot pressure. Too bad there's no local C3 in 86. My friend tells me the 91 doesn't work so well with his 5.0 while the 81 does.

Wave count is definitely improved with taking and upwind speed + angle.

That 81 above looks good. I think that's the good year other than the fact that they get hot as well. The white ones are worse in terms of planing I heard.

What is passive planing ?
Is this another term magazines have made up ?