You have my support in your decision
Good move with the fin too.

mariachi76 said..
Hi all,

so I tried the Fox 105 last Sunday, on flat water, but just after rigging it up, the wind dropped from around 16 to ~13kn. So I could get planing only in few gusts and only for few 100m. I used a Gator 6.5, and it felt very lively - too lively in fact for just flat water blasting.
Later I changed to my Lightwind gear, so I couldn't make an extensive testing of the Fox.

Anyway, I am thinking of buying a cam sail for the Fox for flat water blasting, with a much more locked-in feeling than the gator provides. And between my 6.5 and 8.0 gators, anyway a 7m2 sail is missing.
So in the Severne range, I consider either a Turbo 7.0 or a Overdrive 7.0.
I have a Turbo 9.2 as a lightwind sail and I love it with my JP Super Lightwind, but for the Fox I am also considering an Overdrive which I guess would be a bit faster. I never sailed an Overdrive, but about everybody says it is the greatest sail in the Severne range.

So any recommendations? Did anybody sail already a Turbo or Overdrive on a Fox or even compare them?

best regards
mariachi76

I don't sail on a fox but here are my observations of the Turbo V OD -
The Turbo is lighter than the OD for the same size , it rotates effortlessly , maybe has a deeper belly ? . I haven't rigged both next to each other but the Turbo has a very deep belly. Turbo has a narrow luff like a RAF sail so it's easier to waterstart .

The Overdrive has a lower / larger foot area so it would be better for off the wind and speedsailing. I use the Overdrive in flatwater.

I love the Turbo for sailing in chop - more stability and power than my 2015 NCX. So much so that last year when I was having problems being overpowered with my 7m NCX I put the 7.5m Turbo on . Although it was larger it was more stable and I could enjoy myself!

mariachi76 said..

sboardcrazy said..

mariachi76 said..
Hi all,

so I tried the Fox 105 last Sunday, on flat water, but just after rigging it up, the wind dropped from around 16 to ~13kn. So I could get planing only in few gusts and only for few 100m. I used a Gator 6.5, and it felt very lively - too lively in fact for just flat water blasting.
Later I changed to my Lightwind gear, so I couldn't make an extensive testing of the Fox.

Anyway, I am thinking of buying a cam sail for the Fox for flat water blasting, with a much more locked-in feeling than the gator provides. And between my 6.5 and 8.0 gators, anyway a 7m2 sail is missing.
So in the Severne range, I consider either a Turbo 7.0 or a Overdrive 7.0.
I have a Turbo 9.2 as a lightwind sail and I love it with my JP Super Lightwind, but for the Fox I am also considering an Overdrive which I guess would be a bit faster. I never sailed an Overdrive, but about everybody says it is the greatest sail in the Severne range.

So any recommendations? Did anybody sail already a Turbo or Overdrive on a Fox or even compare them?

best regards
mariachi76

I don't sail on a fox but here are my observations of the Turbo V OD -
The Turbo is lighter than the OD for the same size , it rotates effortlessly , maybe has a deeper belly ? . I haven't rigged both next to each other but the Turbo has a very deep belly. Turbo has a narrow luff like a RAF sail so it's easier to waterstart .

The Overdrive has a lower / larger foot area so it would be better for off the wind and speedsailing. I use the Overdrive in flatwater.

I love the Turbo for sailing in chop - more stability and power than my 2015 NCX. So much so that last year when I was having problems being overpowered with my 7m NCX I put the 7.5m Turbo on . Although it was larger it was more stable and I could enjoy myself!

Thanks a lot for sharing this experience. Of course I want easy handling, but on the other hand also chase my personal speed record :-). What would you think how much faster is an overdrive than a turbo under similar conditions?
does the overdrive give less stability? I thought the OD gave even more of this locked-in feeling.
thanks
mariachi76

OD is probably faster- especially off the wind where the bigger foot will help. OD is more stable as it has 3 cams rather than 2 . Downside to OD is it is a little heavier and the luff tube is wider so it will be heavier to waterstart. The luff can fill with water if you aren't quick to start. Not as bad as a full on 4 cam racesail but the GT doesn't have that issue.
Just a bit more effort with the OD if you have to raise it up and let the water drain.
I can't say re the speed difference as I only use the GT in chop. Also my GT is 7.5m and the OD 7m. I like it so much I'm going to get a 7m GT for the chop and will keep my 7m OD for speed sailing. I'm only a lightweight so ease of use and lightness are my priorities for a sail in chop.
It depends on how important speed is to you. If you wear a GPS and compete the OD will be faster. If you just want to have fun and feel fast the GT will be lighter easier to use and fun. I'm not sure if you will notice a lot of difference across the wind . Off the breeze the OD will have the edge.

Hi all,
so yesterday I could finally test my new Fox 105 in good flat water conditions. Wind speed was 17kn with gusts to 20kn (measeured myself). I went out with my Gator 6.5 and standard 36cm fin. My weight is 78kg.
I had lots of fun, getting planing easily and got used to the small board size quickly. But somehow the gps speed was a bit disappoinging. Max speed I reached was 21,5 kn. With my Magic Ride 130 I go at least 2kn faster in such conditions and it really flies on the fin.

I had the feeling that somehow the Fox didn't really fly on the fin. Nose was rather pointing up, but lots of water contact in the rear of the board - it felt a bit sticky. The mast foot position was maybe 1 cm forward of the center position, medium downhaul and outhaul applied to the sail (upper cleavelet).

Below you can see a photo, maybe tells you more than my description. On that photo I guess I just made around 18kn of speed.

Any idea what I could improve in my setup (or position ) to make the board fly more on flat water?
Could the Gator be such a limit? Or is 21,5kn in 17kn wind on a 105L board anyway normal?


best regards
mariachi76

boardsurfr said..
Your stance would be appropriate for sailing in 35 knots and high chop. For relatively flat water and 20 knots wind, you'd be faster in a "7" stance than a "power 6" stance. Your hands should be closer together, the front arm straighter, your body straight, and the front leg straight. Check the pictures and explanations at boards.co.uk/features/speed-and-control.html

I agree. This is the fix ^

A guy of my limited skill had trouble putting it in action though. If you just stand up straight from your existing stance you load the harness lines less, reduce mast foot pressure and make nose skying problem worse.

I think from memory it Guy Cribbs articles had some good ideas how to fix it. Basically to go from your stance to the 7 Stance you could try these drills when the nose is riding a bit high in underpowered conditions / Lulls while your blasting along in the straps:

- thumbs on the harness lines ( so hands closer together) with a super loose grip, and instead of standing up, straighten your arms and physically push the boom away from you and forward with your palms. This pulls you up over the board and into more of the 7 with your weight still on the harness line.

- While doing this with the rig, push down on the ball of your front foot, applying increasing pressure until you've physically forced the board flat with your foot. pushing like this straightens your front leg too and braces against catapult. Yeah you'll accelerate and bear off a bit. but speed when underpowered helps flatten the board too.

These are a bit extreme, but once you get the feel you can find a comfortable balance going between the 7 and 6 stances as required to keep the board flat.

Dear all,
thanks a lot for all your feedback. When I saw that photo (and some more) I immediately realized that it looks... different from other windsurfing photos.
I will read all your tips again before I go next time, and see if I can improve my stance and speed.
Best regards
mariachi76

Digressing, didn't someone go 40+ on the 95? So they have heaps of potential if you are prepared to push them.

mariachi76 said..

duzzi said..
Maybe the photo is deceiving but those do not look like 17-20 knots conditions, you do not have a trace of white caps anywhere. The asset is not great (as other have commented would be ok if you were grossly overpowered) but I am not sure that a better asset would gain that much speed. Under powered as you look in that photo I am not too surprised that the Fox was so slow. Assuming you have the same asset on the JP Ride the JP might be marginally faster just because it has more volume and you are still in a speed regimen where some extra float helps speed.

BTW: the Fox should excel in powered up and confused see conditions. It will still not be as fast as a dedicated slalom board, but somebody around here claimed to have clocked just a hair above 30 knots. I am not sure what the wind speed is when I do, but at 70kg when I hit my speed max (29-33 knots) I am vastly overpowered on 6.5.

Hi, I measured the wind myself with an anemomenter, mostly around 17kn with gusts to 20, with white caps. But maybe in that moment it was lower, around 15.
I have some more photos where you can see small white caps, but ist is a small salt water basin with 500x2000m, so no big waves can build up.
What du you mean with asset? I am not a native english speaker and don't know what you mean...

On these photos you can see some white caps - and my bad stance (red board/sail)

what fin and size were you using? The other persons board looks quite larger than the Fox, what was it & their sail size?

Maybe try a seat harness instead of the waist harness, that will almost automatically get you into the 7 stance

mariachi76 said..

ausbinny said..
Maybe try a seat harness instead of the waist harness, that will almost automatically get you into the 7 stance

Yes, good idea. I have actually a brand new one which i tried only once. Disliked it due to the low position of the hook, but probably just have to get used to it.

Need longer lines too

mariachi76 said..

ausbinny said..
Maybe try a seat harness instead of the waist harness, that will almost automatically get you into the 7 stance

Yes, good idea. I have actually a brand new one which i tried only once. Disliked it due to the low position of the hook, but probably just have to get used to it.

No no no, don't complicate the equation. A Chest harness is what most PWA slalom sailors use for more than a reason. If anything a seat harness might make your stance worse by helping you squat even more and weight down the board with your butt.

To correct your posture: In powered to overpowered conditions do not think about weighting down the board, or the fin, no squatting! All you have to do is to keep your body relatively straight, think a natural position as if you were standing upright. The harness lines are there just to pull on the boom. The idea is to have the board feel as light as possible, arms barely engaged, the force of the sail going through harness lines, the mast foot and your feet. It should feel very slippery, no drag or pushing against the fin unless you are going high up-wind.

Also read the suggestions on board asset, mast position etc that can be found at point-7.com/

Hi mariachi76,

I'm jealous your windsurfing where its warms and you are wearing boardshorts
My advice is to wear your current waist harness lower and pull the straps up tighter so it doesn't ride up then your harness hook should be about belly button height.
Good sailing!

duzzi said..

mariachi76 said..

ausbinny said..
Maybe try a seat harness instead of the waist harness, that will almost automatically get you into the 7 stance

Yes, good idea. I have actually a brand new one which i tried only once. Disliked it due to the low position of the hook, but probably just have to get used to it.

No no no, don't complicate the equation. A Chest harness is what most PWA slalom sailors use for more than a reason. If anything a seat harness might make your stance worse by helping you squat even more and weight down the board with your butt.

To correct your posture: In powered to overpowered conditions do not think about weighting down the board, or the fin, no squatting! All you have to do is to keep your body relatively straight, think a natural position as if you were standing upright. The harness lines are there just to pull on the boom. The idea is to have the board feel as light as possible, arms barely engaged, the force of the sail going through harness lines, the mast foot and your feet. It should feel very slippery, no drag or pushing against the fin unless you are going high up-wind.

Also read the suggestions on board asset, mast position etc that can be found at point-7.com/

I use both waist and seat harness if you look at most speed sailers (40 + knots) we use seat harness as I do and we don't sit down when ripping but ride straight front leg slight bent back leg and drive of the rails and that's with seat harness !

Stick with the waist harness. Shift the mast foot back a couple of centimetres in the track to help the board ride off the fin.
Straighten your legs and bring your hands closer together.

Maintain the stance but point your toes.