have the new no cam sails wrecked windsurfing ?

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mr windsurf
mr windsurf
VIC
81 posts
VIC, 81 posts
3 Aug 2008 12:12pm
HEY hardie there was once a guy at rye on a 6.0 cam sail ,fully powered up on a 78 liter starboard ,while I was standing on the beach with me no cam naish sail and all the other windsurfers as well ,with there no cams and wave sails . cheers hardie
mr windsurf
mr windsurf
VIC
81 posts
VIC, 81 posts
3 Aug 2008 12:29pm
maybe the V8 helium is my answer, neilpryed are one smart sail company. I bet its the new trend the other brands will follow. Its funny how they went flat in design now there going back to heaps of profile like in the 80s, you cant beat the good old gear and kona are going back to building longboards. I think a 6.5 v8 helium, a kona and you have the best rig, you could wavesail in 6 knots. I think that will be my next rig.
Leman
Leman
VIC
672 posts
VIC, 672 posts
4 Aug 2008 12:37am
Hey Mr Windsurf,

I occassionally sail at Rye as well. Great spot except for the shallow water with my 48cm fin. I'm am also a heavy guy of 94kg.

I used a 8.5 V8, which I can barely plane in 14 knots. It has a lot of kick but heavy as hell in low wind. It can be a pain to set up the sail for a water start since flipping it will often sink the clew end of the boom, but the actual waterstart is as easy as any sail. The fun is around 20knots when I'm like a mini speed boat.

I have a cammed 6.5 Gaastra which is good for 19knots to 30. Although the cams make it almost impossible to turn off at 30knots.

I also have a 6.2 North sail (Natural) no cams. You would think there wouldn't be much difference in 0.3 sq metres, but I need about 27knots and I can take this above 35knots comfortably with I rig it flat. So losing the cams feels like about a 1.5 sq metre drop in sail.

Nice to also hear the planing frustrations of other bigs guys. Would love to stick a 60kg fella on my biggest rig in low wind. He would give the kiters a run for their money.

Might catch you at Rye or Mt. Martha.
mr windsurf
mr windsurf
VIC
81 posts
VIC, 81 posts
4 Aug 2008 1:10am
Hey Leman I did stick a light weight guy on my windsurfer. I said to him I cant sail this, go for it, he was stoked as when he came in. He said he liked me JP board alot. It was about 10 knots at rye, it was great watching my board plane for once, he even took on some of the kiters.
mr windsurf
mr windsurf
VIC
81 posts
VIC, 81 posts
4 Aug 2008 1:41am
Leman thats why i only want a 6.5 because of the weight problems with sails any bigger i think a good cam sail should be able to plane in 10 knots and i saw a guy at rye the other weekend with a 6.0 cam race sail and had heaps of profile in 10 knots he was flying the only guy able to windsurf with the kiters he was 85 kilos i think he said Leman i dont really blame weight its the flat sails all the companys are makeing sure the lighter you are does help once i get me cam sail i am after i will post a vid on youtube and show ya its not the size not the weight that gets you going fast in light wind its the profile and how its rigged neilpryed have been the first company to find that out with the v8 helium ,that north no cam you have you might of been better off getting a cam sail in that size but like you say they are fast no cam sails in the higher wind range one good thing i can say about my naish is its a fast sail when the wind is up to 20 knots i can drag off kiters and its real easy to water start and uphaul but i want to be able to windsurf under 15 knots and plane like the kiters
cheers
mr windsurf
mr windsurf
VIC
81 posts
VIC, 81 posts
4 Aug 2008 1:54am
one thing to, i have reserched different sails and read alot of reviews, even some of the cam sails are not that powerfull. A few companys that tend to design there sails for power not just speed, is sailworks ,severn and ezzy, so i am looking for a 6.0 to 6.5 in those brands. If i cant find one i will just get any cam sail, you might want to check out there web sites.
Leman
Leman
VIC
672 posts
VIC, 672 posts
4 Aug 2008 1:03pm
Yeah I actually like my no cam 6.2 sail for the reason that it allows me to ride on those psycho days without ripping my arms off. I pretty much use it as a wave sail.

If I was a rich fella I would love to buy a formula board and a 12 metre sail, with the aim that almost all days are sailing days. The Mt. Martha boys are all really good sailers but generally won't go into anything less than 30 knots. That doesn't allow many sailing days.

Well if you solve the early planing issue let us know.
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
4 Aug 2008 1:17pm
mr windsurf said...

Leman thats why i only want a 6.5 because of the weight problems with sails any bigger i think a good cam sail should be able to plane in 10 knots and i saw a guy at rye the other weekend with a 6.0 cam race sail and had heaps of profile in 10 knots he was flying the only guy able to windsurf with the kiters he was 85 kilos i think he said Leman i dont really blame weight its the flat sails all the companys are makeing sure the lighter you are does help once i get me cam sail i am after i will post a vid on youtube and show ya its not the size not the weight that gets you going fast in light wind its the profile and how its rigged neilpryed have been the first company to find that out with the v8 helium ,that north no cam you have you might of been better off getting a cam sail in that size but like you say they are fast no cam sails in the higher wind range one good thing i can say about my naish is its a fast sail when the wind is up to 20 knots i can drag off kiters and its real easy to water start and uphaul but i want to be able to windsurf under 15 knots and plane like the kiters
cheers



Do you ever find you get out of breath when you talk?
Ben Severne
Ben Severne
WA
194 posts
WA, 194 posts
4 Aug 2008 11:21am
Hey Mr Windsurf,

Not so sure that Pryde are the first with that style of sail (Helium), or that the other brands will follow this trend... Think it's kinda the other way around.
Pryde are pretty good at marketing the concept though.

You're not the only guy looking for a more efficient solution to sub 15 knot windsurfing. Lots of places have those conditions EVERY day.
I reckon getting your arms ripped off when the wind picks up is still a lot more fun than dogging around with the kiters jumping over you...
Bondalucci
Bondalucci
VIC
1580 posts
VIC, 1580 posts
4 Aug 2008 1:27pm
Ithinkivereadtoomanyofhispostsanditsstartingtoeffectthewayistructuremysentences.
Hopeitsjusttemporary!
FlickySpinny
FlickySpinny
WA
657 posts
WA, 657 posts
4 Aug 2008 4:22pm
To go to the original question:

Have the new no cam sails recked windsurfing?

The answer is no. Cammed sails have their place, but it's not in my quiver. Light-weight, fast-rotating super-responsive freestyle sails are in my bag, and there's no way in hell I could try half the stuff I want to with a cammed sail. Mind you, the largest sail I have is a 5.8! (75kg, 84 JP FSW and a 99 F2 Chilli). I really am not a fan of cams, but each to their own... :o)
OceanBlue64
OceanBlue64
VIC
980 posts
VIC, 980 posts
4 Aug 2008 6:46pm
I have a 6.5 Severne NCX (no cams) and was sailing on Saturday with guys using the same size cammed sails. While I was about 4 or 5 knots off the pace compared to them, I feel this was more due to technique rather than sail difference as these guys have far more experience than I do.

On the larger board I can still plane in about 11 or 12 knots.
mr windsurf
mr windsurf
VIC
81 posts
VIC, 81 posts
4 Aug 2008 6:57pm
a you ben severne who owns severne sails ? i like your code reds they rock wish i had the money for one cheers you know how to make sails
mr windsurf
mr windsurf
VIC
81 posts
VIC, 81 posts
4 Aug 2008 7:10pm
hey EVLPANDA i did not know you could talk live in seabreeze forums and run out of breath son
OceanBlue64
OceanBlue64
VIC
980 posts
VIC, 980 posts
4 Aug 2008 7:41pm
mr windsurf said...

a you ben severne who owns severne sails ? i like your code reds they rock wish i had the money for one cheers you know how to make sails


I am not Ben but I am a huge fan of the Severne sails as well as how they treat their customers. From my own experiences, I can not speak highly enough of them
mr windsurf
mr windsurf
VIC
81 posts
VIC, 81 posts
4 Aug 2008 8:07pm
look back at the post ben severn has been in here oceanblue64 but like you say severn are powerfull sails i bet cam or no cam cheers mr ocean
OceanBlue64
OceanBlue64
VIC
980 posts
VIC, 980 posts
4 Aug 2008 8:49pm
mr windsurf said...

look back at the post ben severn has been in here oceanblue64 but like you say severn are powerfull sails i bet cam or no cam cheers mr ocean


oops didnt see that
Squid Lips
Squid Lips
WA
708 posts
WA, 708 posts
4 Aug 2008 7:15pm
Leman said...

I occassionally sail at Rye as well. Great spot except for the shallow water with my 48cm fin. I'm am also a heavy guy of 94kg.

I used a 8.5 V8, which I can barely plane in 14 knots.


You might need to play with your sail tuning a bit. I weigh about the same as you and plane in 15 knots with my 6.4 wave sail on a 104L board and stock 30cm fin. It's amazing what a difference 1 or 2cm of outhaul and/or downhaul can make.
Leman
Leman
VIC
672 posts
VIC, 672 posts
5 Aug 2008 11:02am
You could be right Squidlips. Up until last Thursday when I broke my boom (185-230), its max length didn't allow me to tune the 8.5 at all. It was just barely big enough. I'm all about '2nd hand' so I make sacrifices sometimes. Just bought a new 200-250 NP boom, so for the first time I can tune my 8.5.

Now all I need is a decent wind to try it out. Damn seabreeze keeps downgrading the wind in Vic for the weekend.

It still could be me, but I've been studying all the early planing info from Guy Cribb, eg. harness line way back, higher boom, weight into harness and down through mast, minimise weight in feet, mast more vertical, etc

It's only been semi-frustrating because I haven't yet seen a windsurfer planing when I'm not, only kiters so far. Still if you have some good heavy man tips to further increase early planing, would love to hear it.



FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15100 posts
WA, 15100 posts
5 Aug 2008 9:07am
Squid Lips said...

Leman said...

I occassionally sail at Rye as well. Great spot except for the shallow water with my 48cm fin. I'm am also a heavy guy of 94kg.

I used a 8.5 V8, which I can barely plane in 14 knots.


You might need to play with your sail tuning a bit. I weigh about the same as you and plane in 15 knots with my 6.4 wave sail on a 104L board and stock 30cm fin. It's amazing what a difference 1 or 2cm of outhaul and/or downhaul can make.


Are you sure you weigh 'about the same'? I weigh 96kgs and in 15 knots a 104L board is flat out floating let alone planing. Admittedly I haven't tried sailing on the dead sea though...

On a 6.4m wave sail too you say... ?

I might have to check my scales or my anemometer.
Squid Lips
Squid Lips
WA
708 posts
WA, 708 posts
5 Aug 2008 12:37pm
I don't have an anemometer, just going off the BOM observations from the airport which is only a few k's from where I sail. I sailed on saturday in 15 knots with 20 knot gusts, 6.4 KA Kult and F2 XTC 103. I weigh 95kg Had to rig it so the sail was touching the boom when sheeted in, maybe hanging over a bit in the gusts and only the top of the leech between the first two battens was slightly loose but this got me planing. Once unstuck the XTC flies, I think it would plane through 12 knot lulls. Perhaps it is a bit bigger than advertised? It feels very floaty under foot.
stribo
stribo
QLD
1628 posts
QLD, 1628 posts
5 Aug 2008 4:35pm
I have two 7.6m sails.One has cams and rigs on an rdm.The other has no cams and rigs on an sdm.The cammed sail i can squeeze about two more knots out of . It feels heavy but stable in the gusts.The no cam feels much lighter but when you get powered up or a gust hits you can feel every thing flexing out of shape and generaly give you a hard time untill it settles down again.
I reckon for speed and slalom racing cams are the go.
For fun all round sailing no cams are the go as they don't take as much energy out of ya.

But when it all comes down to it ...use whatever you can get your hands on to get on the water

Windsurfing will never be wrecked....
mr windsurf
mr windsurf
VIC
81 posts
VIC, 81 posts
5 Aug 2008 5:07pm
for the boys telling me off for me punctuation i fixed it up i write like that in msn its a bad habbit cheers
FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15100 posts
WA, 15100 posts
5 Aug 2008 3:16pm
stribo said...

I have two 7.6m sails.One has cams and rigs on an rdm.The other has no cams and rigs on an sdm.The cammed sail i can squeeze about two more knots out of . It feels heavy but stable in the gusts.The no cam feels much lighter but when you get powered up or a gust hits you can feel every thing flexing out of shape and generaly give you a hard time untill it settles down again.
I reckon for speed and slalom racing cams are the go.
For fun all round sailing no cams are the go as they don't take as much energy out of ya.


When I went to Dahab a few years ago, the hire place I used only had cammed sails in the 8m and 8.5m sails. Everything else was no cams, and mostly wave sails in the smaller sizes. As Dahab is gusty I had a heck of a time trying to get going on the non cammed sails as by the time they got their shape in the gust, the lull would hit and the shape would disappear.

I preferred the cammed 8m by far and was out on that when others were out on less than 6m sails. I know my weight makes a bit of difference, but the cammed sails certainly felt more locked in and stable for that sort of gusty crap wind. It was way less tiring for me that way than struggling with the non-cammed sails.

A week later I was using a different hire place that had North sails and I used the r-types and another type of cammed sail. Much better. It allowed me to get away with a smaller board too as I was able to keep going in between the gusts.


But when it all comes down to it ...use whatever you can get your hands on to get on the water

Windsurfing will never be wrecked....


Nope. Not true. Windsurfing is wrecked when you have had at least 4 hours sailing time, your hands can't contract to hold a beer bottle, the hot water from a shower makes a slightly better stinging sensation than the pouring rain you just sailed in, and you know that tired as you are, if the forecast holds you will be doing the same again tomorrow.

Did I say wrecked? I meant good!
swoosh
swoosh
QLD
1929 posts
QLD, 1929 posts
5 Aug 2008 5:29pm
Leman said...

Hey Mr Windsurf,

I occassionally sail at Rye as well. Great spot except for the shallow water with my 48cm fin. I'm am also a heavy guy of 94kg.

I used a 8.5 V8, which I can barely plane in 14 knots. It has a lot of kick but heavy as hell in low wind. It can be a pain to set up the sail for a water start since flipping it will often sink the clew end of the boom, but the actual waterstart is as easy as any sail. The fun is around 20knots when I'm like a mini speed boat.

I have a cammed 6.5 Gaastra which is good for 19knots to 30. Although the cams make it almost impossible to turn off at 30knots.

I also have a 6.2 North sail (Natural) no cams. You would think there wouldn't be much difference in 0.3 sq metres, but I need about 27knots and I can take this above 35knots comfortably with I rig it flat. So losing the cams feels like about a 1.5 sq metre drop in sail.

Nice to also hear the planing frustrations of other bigs guys. Would love to stick a 60kg fella on my biggest rig in low wind. He would give the kiters a run for their money.

Might catch you at Rye or Mt. Martha.


Do you think your wind speed estimates are a bit on the high side? 27kts to get going on a 6.2? I'm not sure I could hang onto a 6m sail in close to 30kts lol. I can see that you are a bit of a heavier guy, but those numbers seem a bit on the high side.

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