I recently acquired a KA sail. The problem is I can't get enough downhaul on it with a standard extension. Almost, but not quite. I'm afraid I'm going to pop a disc if I pull any harder. Pics of rigged sail on my profile page.
I have a power XT extension but the loop is too thick to go through the space between sail pulley and the tape. I can't even push it through with a screwdriver.
I have tried unthreading the cord from the power XT and threading it through the pulley but it is really hard to get it back into the extension.
I'm sure there is a brillant solution but I haven't been able to come up with it yet.
Help!




The photo shows pulley, standard extension and the power XT cord.

swoosh said...

get some formula line.

I think the XT requires it's own special rope.
The space is so narrow I don't think the standard rope will squeeze through either.

swoosh said...

formula line should be much easier to downhaul then your current downhaul rope. you might find that you can downhaul the sail without feeling like slipping a disc with your normal extension if you use formulaline. for $10 its a good investment.

sorry can't help with the powerxt extension don't know much about them.

That sounds interesting. What is it about the formula line that makes it easier?
Do you get it from any windsurfing shop?

use ur power xt, but thread the rope through like a normal extension every time, unthreading through the little cleat on the bottom.

this means you use it like a normal extension with a ratchet rather than the loop and go ratchet set up.
I can show you how at then next freestyle session.

Get a crank. It makes downhauling so much easier, warms up your arms and puts absolutely no pressure on your back.

Or get a proper sail that doesn't need a crank or 10 guys to downhaul it to the spec...

The Formulaline is indeed more slippery (and a lot stronger) than anything else and ease downhaul a fair bit.

That sounds interesting. What is it about the formula line that makes it easier?
Do you get it from any windsurfing shop?

http://www.surfsailaustralia.com.au/showProduct/Windsurfing/Bits+and+Pieces/433855/Marlows+3.8+mm+Formuline

Thats where I got mine from and it makes downloading so much easier, before I got it I had to use a crank to download one of my sails now I just pull.

Definitely worth the investment.

Just to clarify a post above,

I believe North Power XT's do not take a standard diameter rope (4.5mm). I believe Formuline is 3.8mm. Do a google search on North Power Xt rope diameter.

Alternatives are: You could get a crank
Or you could carbonsugar.com/technique/save-your-back-rig-it-right/

Lots of Formula sailors downhaul 12m rigs using Formuline and the technique described. Works just as well as a crank (in many ways better because you can feel the tension on the rig and know if something is wrong before you smash your camber inducers or worse - mast).

JB

keef said...

Windxtasy said...

I recently acquired a KA sail. The problem is I can't get enough downhaul on it with a standard extension. Almost, but not quite. I'm afraid I'm going to pop a disc if I pull any harder. Pics of rigged sail on my profile page.
I have a power XT extension but the loop is too thick to go through the space between sail pulley and the tape. I can't even push it through with a screwdriver.
I have tried unthreading the cord from the power XT and threading it through the pulley but it is really hard to get it back into the extension.
I'm sure there is a brillant solution but I haven't been able to come up with it yet.
Help!




The photo shows pulley, standard extension and the power XT cord.

is it my eyes or is the rope crossing

The rope is not crossing.

Anita,

When you down haul on the rope are you pulling it down into the cleat or up away from the cleat (like for releasing tension).

Dragging the rope down through the cleat will greatly increase the downhaul force required to downhaul the sail.

Would also recommend a "Crank" extremely simple to use and zero back strain (apart from crouching down to do sail), getting the sail down hauled millimeter perfect is a breeze with one of these puppies.

The formula line does greatly reduce friction and is tough as, definitely well worth the extra brass.

elmo said...

Anita, when you down haul on the rope are you pulling it down into the cleat or up away from the cleat.

Dragging the rope down through the cleat will greatly increase the downhaul force required to downhaul the sail.

Hi Alby,
I don't cleat it until I have applied as much downhaul as I can.

JayBee said...

Just to clarify a post above,

Alternatives are: You could get a crank
Or you could carbonsugar.com/technique/save-your-back-rig-it-right/

How much extra line do you need to use this technique?

Mark _australia said...


Need some wind first......

Ain't that the truth!
I got so desperate for a sail I puddled around in 8-10 knots the other day.

But when we do get some wind I want this sail to be ready to go!

It looks like a 2004/05 Kult. I would be very surprised if you can't get enough downhaul using your harness bar with that Chinook standard extension as the sail does not have huge amounts of luff round.
That said a winch will be the best $100 you ever spent!!!

keef said...

Windxtasy said...

I recently acquired a KA sail. The problem is I can't get enough downhaul on it with a standard extension. Almost, but not quite. I'm afraid I'm going to pop a disc if I pull any harder. Pics of rigged sail on my profile page.
I have a power XT extension but the loop is too thick to go through the space between sail pulley and the tape. I can't even push it through with a screwdriver.
I have tried unthreading the cord from the power XT and threading it through the pulley but it is really hard to get it back into the extension.
I'm sure there is a brillant solution but I haven't been able to come up with it yet.
Help!




The photo shows pulley, standard extension and the power XT cord.

is it my eyes or is the rope crossing

To me it looks like your rope is crossing twice. Downhauling like this becomes more difficult the closer the pulleys come together, and can prevent the foot of sail from being closer to the deck for better sail trim depending on what style of sailing you are doing.

For reference in your pic I will refer to the Topside of any of the pulleys as the side you can directly see, and the Underside of the pulleys as the side facing the mastbase tubing.
Following the rope back from the cleat it flows properly to the top side of sails pulley.
But then it goes to the top side of the cleats pulley, it looks as though this is repeated again on the sails middle pulley/top side then to the next pulley on the cleats topside.

You have used the pulleys in the correct order but have crossed the ropes or (figure 8'ed them) between the pulleys. The rope should flow topside to topside and Underside to Underside.

Are you trying to downhaul your sail in one go before attaching the boom and out-hauling?

I pre-outhaul or even over outhaul my sail when rigging after I put a small amount of downhaul on first. This pre-bends the mast and slackens the luff to make doing the final downhaul easier. Then set the outhaul to the desired setting.

Hope this helps.

swoosh said...

Spotty said...
To me it looks like your rope is crossing twice. Downhauling like this becomes more difficult the closer the pulleys come together, and can prevent the foot of sail from being closer to the deck for better sail trim depending on what style of sailing you are doing.

For reference in your pic I will refer to the Topside of any of the pulleys as the side you can directly see, and the Underside of the pulleys as the side facing the mastbase tubing.
Following the rope back from the cleat it flows properly to the top side of sails pulley.
But then it goes to the top side of the cleats pulley, it looks as though this is repeated again on the sails middle pulley/top side then to the next pulley on the cleats topside.

You have used the pulleys in the correct order but have crossed the ropes or (figure 8'ed them) between the pulleys. The rope should flow topside to topside and Underside to Underside.

Are you trying to downhaul your sail in one go before attaching the boom and out-hauling?

I pre-outhaul or even over outhaul my sail when rigging after I put a small amount of downhaul on first. This pre-bends the mast and slackens the luff to make doing the final downhaul easier. Then set the outhaul to the desired setting.

Hope this helps.

bit hard to tell with the pic, but i think spotty and keef are right and you have got the downhaul threaded wrong. the neilpryde website has a good manual on how to properly thread the downhaul, will help massively.

www.mauisails.com/files/products/sails/07no_cam_sails_guide.pdf

Oops you're right. I see what you mean now. The ropes aren't touching but they are in a figure 8 pattern. I can see the other arrangement would work better.

Yes I do add some outhaul before finishing the downhaul.

Thanks for all these brilliant suggestions.
I have also come up with another solution of my own which may be helpful to other XT owners.
I have added a leader line to my downhaul rope to facilitate rethreading through the hole in the extension.
It is made of fishing leader wire (14 kg breaking strain) threaded through the downhaul rope (which has a heat sealed end) and secured with a couple of crimps.
It makes it easy to rethread the down haul line into the extension (because I can pull the rope through), and it makes it much easier to thread through the pulleys also.



I intend to try some of these other ideas with my other mast base also and will report back to you.
I plan to thread my pulleys properly! (can't believe I've sailed all these years without noticing that!)
get some formuline
use the harness hook method of downhauling.
Thanks again!

swoosh said...

NotWal said...

swoosh said...


bit hard to tell with the pic, but i think spotty and keef are right and you have got the downhaul threaded wrong. the neilpryde website has a good manual on how to properly thread the downhaul, will help massively.

www.mauisails.com/files/products/sails/07no_cam_sails_guide.pdf

The NP / Maui Sails threading is for sheave blocks at right angles to each other, and yes that arrangement is a tiny bit more efficient, but it doesn't apply to parallel blocks.

the theory still applies, i have parallel pulleys and thread them in a similar way so that all lines are parallel. it reduces wear on your downhaul ropes as they sit straight in the pulleys, and also means you can downhaul all the way to the bottom, thou its not always possible based on the length steps on the extension and sail trim.

Its not possible to thread parallel blocks with all the lines parallel. You can get close but you have lines feeding in and out slightly obliquely. With blocks at right angles and sheaves of the right size this obliqueness is almost eliminated.