NSW
323 posts
I must say I second those comments about the Starboard Start. A year ago, I'd never been on a windsurfer. Got the chance to take it up, did some research and bought a second hand Start and two old sails.
Within 6 sessions, I had popped onto the plane. Within 12, I was searching and striving for planing conditions. It would be fair to say at this point I was hooked, and well past the point of turning back.
From these humble beginnings, I've bought about $7k worth of equipment, (slalom board, formula board, three booms, three masts, four sails, harness, lines, bags...)become an avid reader of all things windsurfing, met and sailed with most of the Sydney crew, choosing cars based on their gear carrying capacity.....the list goes on. I'm sure this is exactly what Starboard had in mind when the invented the start - sturdy to take the abuse of learning, stable to avoid the inevitable initial frustration, planable to ensure one is hooked, and priced at a level not to scare off newcomers. For me, the Start was the perfect introduction to windsurfing.
I finally sold it a few months ago to a friend who was looking to take up windsurfing. Some might argue the Start is too beginner-orientated. Yes it is, but at such cheap prices, it's probably better for the sport to get you started rapidly, move you onto a more conventional slalom board, and keep the learner boards passing through the newcomer ranks to encourage more people into the sport.
Yes, the Start is heavy compared to modern boards, but given the abuse dished out by beginers, it has to be. With the footstraps installed, it is quite easy to grab hold of, plus the offset centre fin box makes it quite easy to carry under one arm. All I would say is be careful when the wind gets up - it has as much surface area as a small sail, and if it catches some wind, hold on!!
Long live the Starboard Start!!
Eckas
NSW
3570 posts
It's cool to see people like modern beginner's boards. It's also great for the sport and thank god Starboard and other people finally realised that the sport is not all about high winds.
However, can I second RB's comment re teaching on Wallys? I teach people most weeks, they can get planing on a Wally in 6 sessions if they start with a smaller sail. We had a non-sailor out there for her second ever session yesterday and she was already tacking, gybing and going upwind happily. So was a guy who surfs. Even people who do neither will ALWAYS get going if you teach them properly and it's 10 knots or less, even on a Wally.
While the big sail IS hard to learn on, I find it pretty funny when people say it's impossible. The fact is that thousands of people learned to sail Wallys before there were any small sails, and tens of thousands learned to sail on 6m2, even ones with wobbly wooden wishbones. To say it's impossible is a bit like saying that it is impossible that people ever learned to drive when they had HQ Holdens.
NSW
95 posts
Chris 249: You say that you teach people, do you do it professionally?
Just interested because I'm thinking of doing an instructors course.
NSW
290 posts
Here here,... Chris. I was wondering if I was the only one to use small sails to learn on a wally ,lol,its so easy then to learn,It totally changed the difficult task I experienced the first time,as the rental place had supplied me with a large sail,they enjoyed laughing at me every time the wind gusted and threw me over the handle bars while my "One Design Nationals' girlfriend who was introducing me to her sport made it look so easy,
If anything was going to turn me away from sailing it was those smart@rses who got a kick out of laughing at the "wimp" whose girlfriend could sail while he couldnt.More reason for me to learn....
so embarasment didnt beat me.lol.
Eckas that was good to hear some more on the beginner/wide type boards,we need to hear more from these owners and how they have found them to learn on,also do you easily get bored with a very stable board and want to move on [Im curious as I sometimes think I may have liked a super stable board since my break from sailing but would I easily wished Id have got something a little less stable,can I say more challenging without offending anyone?]any other comments on other brands of wide boards,
WA
14 posts
I've really enjoyed reading all your comments. I'm an absolute beginner and have only been out about 7-8 times over the last couple of months. A mate gave me an old "sailboard" longboard to learn on and I coupled that with a newer 5.4m sail and boom borrowed from another mate. The mast has a larger diameter than modern masts and a different deck connector, so I've had a bit of trouble coupling that with the newer sail - but I've managed. My kit really is crappy but it's free and I've certainly given a lot of people plenty to laugh at when I'm out on the water.
Being in Perth, I haven't been out yet in less than about 15knots and while it's true that I do spend the majority of my time in the water I've got to the point now where I can get down to the back of the board, get my feet into the straps and straight line blast - and I love it. I'm still uphauling, can't jibe but can tack (as long as I return to the neutral position first).
I'm at the point where I want to get some newer equipment and my question is 'what do I buy?'. I have received so much conflicting advice from the boarding shops that I don't know what to do.
I know I don't want a Start - as they are just to big and I don't want to sail something that looks like a dingy. I've been told that a Exocet cruiser 115litre might be the go, but I've also been told just to jump straight onto a Carve131 as I'll out grow anything else too quickly.
My priorities are simple, going fast in big wind - but I also want to get down for a sail in light breezes as well so I guess I need a board that can take a decent size sail. I want to learn to water start and jibe but can't see myself getting into wave jumping etc.
What do I do?
WA
14 posts
Thanks Doctor,
Pretty much what I'm thinking but I was concerned about trying to go to small to quick.
I'm 83kg so I think around 130litres would be a minimum. Is there much benefit in going for a soft deck board?
WA
2 posts
The sail size on the wally that i tried to learn on was 4.2m. Uphauling was okay but my main problem was simply poor balance, hence the 1m beam of the Start was far more stable. My start came with a 3.7m skinny glass mast, aluminum boom, and a huge 3m (dont all laugh) bright orange dacron sail. The supplied package made the learing experience ideal for an old fossil like me. I now use a 4m Lipstick, 4.6 Revo and the original boom. As I only weigh 65kg, I can plane in 15+ knots. Next summer might get a 5.4 Revo as my fitness improves. I don't use a harness and can now sail for about an hour and a half in most winds.
Rustbucket the width of the start can be a problem to transport. I have a Patrol 4wd and it lives on the roof racks. I carry the board on my head from the car to the beach on my head, holding onto the footstraps. Lifting it above your head in a wind is a challenge. But you can also tuck the board under your arm using the keel case to grip.
Eckas I know what you mean about the wind getting hold of the board. I managed to captize the board and had the devil's own job righting it in the water. Easy now as I have learned to use the wind to flip it over. But I agree with you that in 20 knot's a Start would need to be sailed by a gorilla or two.
I doubt that I will be parting with my Start give it is such a safe stable board. Besides whenever I get tired I can watch the scenery or have a nap.
If anyone wants any information on the Start, just ask. Sailboarding is such fun, even for us delibated geriatrics, hey Rustbucket.
NSW
323 posts
In response to Rustbucket, no, I didn't get frustrated with such a wide stable board. The frustration came when the wind got up, and the board became very hard to handle over chop/waves. It was at this point I bought a slalom board for the moderate to strong wind conditions. However, kept the Starboard Start for light wind days.
Interestingly enough, when I did sell the Start, I immediately started looking around for, and eventually got into, a formula board. There's defintely an attraction for wide, stable boards for light wind days, cold winter days when you don't want to get wet, etc.
Before I sold the Start, I had some wonderful sessions with an aftermarket 58cm formula fin, 9.5m twin cam infinity and about 15 knots. As a 100kg rider, this kit absolutely flew, and certainly raised a few eyebrows around the place.
Eckas
NSW
3570 posts
Bladez, I'm just a volunteer at the local clubs these days, trying to put something back into the sport. I don't know the situation for instructors these days; it used to be OK for a party time if you wanted to work on the Qld resorts, apparently.
NSW
290 posts
Thanks Ecckas and barbells 2
That gives a good rap for the Start,definately an economical new purchase that fulfils it role,and agreeably keeps those sailing who have bad experiences on learning on wallys,but having said that too,Chris proves too that wallys are still a viable learning tool if the right processes are put into play ,namely small sail and a knowledgeable instructor as himself,i can see wallys making a small comeback well at least in Sydney as an alternate fun/club/racing thing a "lets get matching boards/some comraderie and a local spot and have some fleet fun,"
great to hear peoples experiences and great to hear people asking questions such as MURPHS' question,and people with advice as Dr ROCK,I think this was what I was aiming for when I started this thread,somewhere newbies,old timers and fringe sailers could feel comfortable to ask these type of questions,and get advice from those who had already experienced it for themselves,hey we all love sailing,and everyone has something to share whatever board they ride.
cheers Russell
WA
39 posts
Training on a Starboard Start.
Have just spent the best part of a day on Narabeen with a couple of friends and a Start.
The Start was brilliant in serving its purpose. The start is the board of choice over anything I have seen for the 1st trip out.
Put it this way... for an absloute 1st timer.... second time lifting the sail from the beach, she went out so far [far] I realised we had a problem..... as I had not explained how to turn!!
On the other hand the other beginner (a guy) had more technique problems (stance), but got a great deal of time on the water. I sent him out on Wal (with a huge sail)afterwards and I think Wal fixed the stance.
In summary Starts cement the beginning steps and inspire confidence.
However, if most experienced windsurfers get on a Start, they will be disapointed.
Wals are the next step, and after a Wal you can go to freeride nicely.
NSW
3570 posts
That sounds good to me. We've been throwing around the idea of getting a couple of wide beginner boards. There was one (a Fanatic something) that was a bit longer and skinnier than the Start. What do you guys reckon is the best board? What size sail? Has anyone tried the Start-type sails on a Wally and can they shift across?
The intention would be to do what Seaworthy advises; use the Start at first and then move onto Wallys normally (cheap and tough, and fast in our fluky conditions).
WA
275 posts
Here in the West we have been using the Exocet Cruiser (1m wide) and the F2 Prime (85cm wide) . The Primes are without doubt the better board for progressing on, as they are far more versitle, and can be used in far more wind than the real wide boards. This does not mean that 1m wide boards don't have their place, eg for real heavy weights or really nervous pupils. In the end though this are all so much better than teaching on a wally, which were so hard to learn on . Any commercial school that uses narrow boards to teach on should not be taken seriously as there is just no comparison.
Simon
www.gowindsurfing.com
NSW
3570 posts
Race no more! Perish the thought, but don't worry, surely we can keep raceboards going. It seems that Mistrals at least will stay in production for a while yet, and we've tracked down a couple of guys who can build raceboards. The plan is that we'll create an OD class, perhaps modelled on an existing board, when the current raceboards start karking it.
The Wally states looks like attracting 50 or so, we could have got more but for a shortage of boards, so there are still active longboarders. There's a move in the raceboards to return to M or P courses for more reaching and perhaps ban upwind pumping. That may encourage some sailors back into raceboards.
NSW
3570 posts
About the claim that you can't learn to sail with a Windsurfer One Design and 6 metre. We just had the uni nats/NSW states, and had 55 entries. One of them is a top-class dinghy sailor who was put onto the boards and the event a couple of weeks ago.
He'd windsurfed only four times in his life before the NSW titles started, but with filthy sloppy chop rolling in through the Heads a mile away; powerboat wakes; yachts; and the notorious gusts (5-20+ in a second and 15 degree shifts) of Balmoral in a southerly, this guy got out to the line and around a lap or so in several races. He got up the windward legs quite happily, could reach OK, just had trouble square running in slop- but so were people with 15 years' experience.
So you definitely CAN learn to sail on a longboard with a 6 (which we already knew quite well, having taught lots of people) even in filthy conditions. I'm not saying it's the perfect option, but contrary to what some people say it is definitely one option.
It was also damn good to see 50+ boards on a startline. The only problem was that we were relying on the uni sailors to whoop it up at the parties and they were fairly quiet; too stuffed from sailing, perhaps.
NSW
95 posts
i agree the conditions were shocking and bailed after the first race on sat :P
Yea the party would have sucked without unsw there :P We had alternate plans although I was still to buggered to go out with the other guys :/
NSW
3570 posts
Bladez, you'll have to get yourselves down to Dobroyd during the winter to practise for Hamo. We have a couple of guys who have picked up national titles and stuff who can give you tips. If you can't get boards down there maybe you can store some of your boards on the Mac U trailer.
That way you'll be able to sail at Hamo, without being too stuffed to party later. It's not often you get the chance to sail at an island that's owned by fellow windsurfers.
I was going to run DAC training next season but I think I'll do the Uni training/coaching instead, so if you guys have any beginners just send them (and maybe some gear) down and we'll get them sailing.
NSW
95 posts
I think I'll just stick to messing around on my board for the moment :) Much more fun then trying to manage a wally in my opinion.
NSW
211 posts
Hi Russell
This thread is almost as ecentric as you are!!
I must say...last weekend, I had a lesson with a 13 year old girl and her mum...Mum ripped on the Starboard Start and 3.0m rig and her daughter finished her lesson beaming after not falling off at all! They were both on wide boards, the daughter using another wide style board....
They were both so enthused on Windsurfing, they went straight to the windsurfing shop and bought one!!! This is one easy way to get beginners back into our sport of windsurfing and loving the sport!
By comparison, another client last weekend was desperate to get out there and all i had left on the beach was an old Wally..and after a hours free sailing..he thought he had gone backward from his first lesson up the coast at Wallis Lake with Chris / Gabe on a Bombora Regatta beginner board....i swapped his girlfriend off the Start, gave her a little rest, put him on..and he ripped and felt much happier with his sailing....
Wally's are not the answer for modern teaching.....sure for Uni racing they are affordable and easy...but there are easier boards for learning...just ask the uni's what boards they teach on and i am sure you will find most have convinced the Sports Association for a grant for a wide style board...wish they were around when i was President of U.T.S. Windsurfing Club, Sydney...in the early 1990's would have made life much easier...
Hope your enjoying your almost new board and are itching for some more Instruction to get really moving...feel free to call..0408 862000
Rgds
Warren Francis
www.safarilodge.com.fj
NSW
290 posts
Hi Warren
Ecentric........dont try to flater me...lol
Well there does seemed to be an overwhelming wave of contentment for wideboards for learning,developing here,and yet still evidence that longboards are still a viable tool as well,but I started this thread to get this discussion so those reading could also glean any info out which way to go.And I think there is enough info for anyone to decide,and besides its given a few contacts here for different types of sailing,which is a good thing,such as the Iron Cove and Uni sailers.
Well Warren I was poised ready to come up to Winda Woopa,i had gone sailing at Toukley to test the board,great but when I got home i had missed a call from the hospital about my Operation,and missed a last minute chance and over the next few weeks was on call waiting for them,hence missing a trip to Winda Woopa,unfortunately that still applies,but will get back to you.
i really need now to learn use of straps,as previously I neglected that,never really saw the need,but with this new board I do.
NSW
290 posts
Thought i might resurect this thread here as I know there is a lot of wally and longboard riders around now.And wideboards have been around long enough there are second hand ones finally becoming available.
Yes i have now purchased a second hand wideboard...just as a fun alternative and a health alternative..Since my last postings on this thread my hearnia was repaired a year and half ago...I still experience heaps of pain [damn] but it is slowly getting better...I have sailed on and off since the repair but not as consistant as I was...or would like.
Ive enjoyed the Fanatic Bee 317 and it's reduced the weight i have to carry only 13kgs...far lighter than my Wally ...and it sails great.
this is my keeper.
ps.Looking for second hand weed fin for trim box.
Now i am experimenting with a second hand wideboard a Mistral Prodigy..sailed it twice..and have coped with moving it,s bulk as it is not as wide as a Start..but at 15.5 kgs it is heavier than some wideboards although a fair few are around this weight.
It is fitted with the competition mast track and daggerboard..am looking for a second hand weed fin to suit a powerbox.
it fits in my falcon van as it is shorter than the Bee and the width is fine.
I have chosen to trial a wideboard as my lung doctor reckons in 3 to 5 years he will be prepping me for a double lung transplant...surely he is wrong..[I know they are crap but they still work]...I find it hard to believe...but anyway I have chosen to reduce any stress in falling off by trialling this wideboard...if I could move to the ocean Im sure they would get better...
ps swap house in sydney for north coast house....true offer.
Sailed two days for hours on the Prodigy and there is no way you can fall off...its toooooo easy.
the only stress on my lungs i get now is moving it to the car and then to the water and rigging...yes believe it or not all this knocks the sh@t out of me..
but actual sailing is stress free on my lungs if I dont fall in.
Gotta work out a wheel trolley for my boards.
what will happen is I'll play with this a while just while I see how my health goes and when I get a friend to sail they can use this and Ill use my Fanatic Bee 317.
Looking to sail my F2 Lightning raceboard/longboard maybe when I go north this new year.as I miss sailing my Wally.
Could do with a board bag for the Ligthning if anyones got one...urgently .
Anyway thats what Ive done Ive got myself a wideboard to trial as well as my transitionbal board and My raceboard.
funny I also picked up an F2 Phoenix i had wanted ...
but its a 340 not the 320 I had been chasing...ie the 320 is basically similar to my Fanatic Bee 317...but the phoenix 340 is actually more a modern shorter longboard where the 340 is a transitional board..cool
this may take the place of my F2 ligthning as it its actually shorter and a little lighter although the Ligtning is probably only 15kgs i guess.
good fun.....I love my longboards and The prodigy still looks very much like a longboard with a traditional raceboard shape and style albiet shorter though.
for those involved previously in this thread
whats happening with you guys??????????
anyone new with interesting stuff to add just pipe in...
SA
924 posts
This is interesting stuff - I asked my dad about the history of all the long boards
In 1979 my dads first board was a second hand windsurfer with a teak boom and a 4.5m storm sail that his father bought for the family - after learning on that he bought a Dufour Wing - very slippery deck but easy to sail. After that he went "upmarket" and bought a TC Beacher (the model before the Runner and Spacer)and we still have it - he got a kids rig (about 2.5m sail)and a 4.5m and 6.5m triangle sail - I learnt on the Beacher when I was only 6 years old - it is approx 260 Litres and 3.6m long (I think the only equivalent board was an F2 Lightning - also 260 Litres - Windsurfers were 220 Litres) - very stable and very easy to use. A lot of my friends have had a go on it also. Dad still used it in all conditions until middle of this year when he bought a JP Freeride board that is much faster. My brother has a freeride Tiga board and I have a Naish wave board - we sail Goolwa and Boggy Lake and have all progressed from the old Beacher which is now a family heirloom. I think in the right conditions with a smallish sail that it is still the cheapest and best way to learn before spending bigger money on a better set up. I have introduced some of my friends to the sport on the Beacher - one has bought some of my old gear, and we are now starting to sail together.
Cheers
bubs
NSW
1412 posts
Long boards & fat boards are great fun. Glad someone picked up the thread.
My TC Spacer still on the rack in garage, as I can't get off my RRD fat board. Only got a 7.0m sail at moment, but good to 25knots for an old bastard like me.
Got to get in plenty of sailing as I get my hernia done in 2 weeks.Told Doc it was lifting wine & beer boxes that caused it!!
I'm getting addicted to these forums. great reading.
Taught kids on spacer with small rig & plenty of others.
should have seen look on daughters face on river at Yamba when fin surfaced next to her - turned to delight when saw it was dolphin.
Miss having blast behind seawall up there
Also got a big clunker & was going to sell - but after reading all the longboard stuff, I'll have to get Spacer out & try with new rig.
happy drinking & sailing
NSW
290 posts
I think there is a hidden love of traditional longboards that is lurking in the back of many's mind even after years of shortboard sailing.
Maybe it was the assumed daggyness/out style period of longboards that repressed these feelings...many started on one and many remember the fun of learning on these battleships although some were cruizers...now with the new range of modern longboards appearing we will see many grasping back to those days.
Since I originally started this thread a long while back the new longboards have started to make an impact on the scene...perhaps more overseas but eventually we will catch up.
Fortunately these are lighter epoxy offerings,about the weight of the competitive raceboards of the past so much easier to carry,some are shorter and again this makes it easier to carry,some like the Kona which are traditional length and style but with innovations at the rear not seen on longboards before.
I think some will regret sending thier longboards to the tip...others still say all longboards should end up there...but I believe we will see a return to longboards never before anticipated...a useful nostalgic board....and with the new range of longboards..we may see more innovations like the kona...and hey that new serenity is a kooky looking thing...looks like those olympic rowing boat things...man I gotta find out more about that.
Otherwise soft is defineately bad! I don't know if many of the freeride orientated boards we are talking about come with foam decks. If worried, you can use a boom bra, a mast base protector at the bottom of your sail (and perhaps directly under your boom, and even tape a some foam to the front to stop the mast smashing the nose
[}:)]
. though i have to say i love my race board and will be sad the day it can sail no more.
