Mobydisc said...
It also depends upon how consistent the wind is. A wind gusting to 20 knots and dropping to less than 10 in the lulls is completely different to a consistent 20 knot wind.

With an aneometer I've found wind the be incredibly inconsistent, ie 20 knot gusts and 5 knot lulls to be quite normal. So you rig big to muscle through the gusts just so you can keep going in the lulls. If the wind was consistent you'd would rig a much smaller board and sail because there are no lulls to worry about. Once you are on the plane you manage to get through the lulls most of the time. However sometimes the wind drops away for too long and you drop off the plane.

Unfortunately on most windy days around here, gusty winds are the order of the day. Then you get the days where you pray for the lulls coz the gusts are killing you.

Yep. Ok I'm a lightweight ( c 65kgs) but.. This is what I've found to be comfortable in 10 -20kts saltwater lake sailing and it can get choppy . Mid North Coast NSW
I'm a freerider rather than slalom -I like to go fast but not wear out too fast .I'm reasonably fit for my age but old..
10-15kts gusty and lower end with big lulls - 125ltre + 7.2m won't plane all the time
10-15kts more consistent 7.2m + 125 planing well most of the time
15 -20kts - mainly 15-18kts gusty with big lulls 6.6m with 125 planing in gusts
15- 20kts upper end 15-18kts 6.6m with 125 consistent planing , hanging on in 18kts
or if really upper end 5.8m with 95ltre
I don't pump to plane , bear away in gusts.Intermediate sailor.
I can hold the 7.2m in gusty 20kts but its no fun.. I could probably use a 110 or 105ltre board in 13kts + but I don't have one!
That's just me..ready for red thumbs..

well, thank you all for your patience

in summary, the question and answer depend on skills and wind strength

in terms of skills - yes, i do need to get in the straps - for efficiency and speed

at lower end of 15 to 20 knots i am using the 8.x
once the wind nudges over 20 knots, i too am on a 6.3

thanx again
here's hoping the ice melts within the next 2 weeks

Milsy said...
hey,, ha, forget about it joe, these dudes have moved on.... some sweet points, interesting question, what is a good sailor? i think your a great sailor when your skills have reached a level that opens up the door to smaller boards, from a slalom point of view, great sailors like bryon, sam, they seem to sail 50l boards like there just free riding a tank, thats great sailing, the way the guys at sandy sail, thats great sailing, i think to be a good sailor, u must be able to break thirty when its there to be had, plaining gypes both ways, good control, decent airs, good tunning ability of gear, ha, thats a good sailor,, i think i know you, your a good sailor man,,, as for my opinion on sail size, over the years my sails have dropped, use a 6.2 alot more in 10 to 25kts, as opposed to a 7.8 mega overpowered 60 % of the session,, the smaller sail has meant more control, more speed, i find wind consistancey the main thing, 5 to 20 kt, a 7.8, 15 t0 20, a 6.2, as long as im not coming off the plain, but with better skills comes the ability to need less power at the bottom end, opening the door to a smaller sail, so now can maximise the better gusts with less drag, ha, i dont know, for the first few years i thought it was about holding down as big a sail as you could, completely overpowered, but i dont think its about that as much, also wieght of rider, me about 75kg, once its 25 kts, thats plenty of power for me, but some of those bigger speed monsters, there looking for 40kts plus, and can hold down a powered 5m and sit the board down well, ha, i dont think that guy is even gunna want to sail in anything under 20kts, ha, goodluck with all that joey baby

this is the essential problem. everyone gets thrown in the slalom/speed category. the idea that the smallest board possible indicates a level of ability.

reminds me of the nineties. everyone striving to get on the smallest board possible and holding the biggest sail possible to get their board going.

you hear it all the time,

person a asks the question, i can't get going, what should i do.
person b answers. oh, you just need a bigger sail you're underpowered.

hehe. well there is that too.

Gestalt said...

FormulaNova said...

Gestalt said...
not meant to be insulting.

you can't possibly expect to go from running race sails and being completely loaded up to getting the most out of a small sail in the same wind. i know this because that's what i did myself.

it does take time. it's not just about bearing away.

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying you shouldn't be running bigger sails. not at all.

what i am saying is.

people who say a heavy weight on a 6.5m sail in 15-20 knots cant be planning around sailing upwind and down with ease are wrong. a really good sailor would have a 5.8 planning in those winds

'A really good sailor'? What is that? One who is trying to prove how small a sail they can use? One who can go faster than another? One who can comfortably plane out of gybes? There are so many variables, and would a really good sailor want to sail a rig where they had to put in a lot of effort and not be that comfortable?

i'm sorry but who's trying to prove how good a sailor they are by the size of the sail they use?

a simple question was asked, and the simple answer is. yes. plenty.

(I am not talking about you trying to prove how small a sail you can use. That's your choice. Heck, if I am out there and its not worth the time of re-rigging, I will try and eek as much out of the sail I have rigged as well.)

I am trying to say that a 'good sailor' can be lots of things. It depends on what they are trying to do. If they only have small sails, then they are trying to make the most of only having a small sail. If they want to go fast, they will try and go fast, and probably have a bigger sail. If they want to plane out of every gybe, they will probably also have a bigger sail.

I think we are going off track here. I find it much easier to compare sailing style against others of a similar weight, in the same conditions, and then go from there. There's no point in talking about what a good sailor 'could' do in 15 to 20 knots, which itself is a big range. Joe's idea of 20 knots could be a bit different to the heavyweights he mentions. How can you compare them if you have such a variable?

In my Safety Bay example, Troppo was sailing a 5.7m and I was on a 8.5m sail. He was at least 10kgs heavier, yet he was planing relatively easily. He had to pump to do it, but it was working for him. I personally would rather carry a range of sails so that I don't have to do that. I can't physically do it, and still sail every day for 3 weeks in a row. Yet, if I rig for comfort, its easy to sail every day. Hats off to him, he was obviously sailing well.

I do have a problem with your assertion that " if you put your 8.5 in the garage and only sailed your 6.5 you would adjust your technique and not struggle. it just takes time."

You yourself say that "the biggest sail i use now is my 5.8, that means i dredge a bit in 15-20 knots." - I prefer to not dredge

I'm a heavy weight at 100kgs and have been making myself use nothing bigger then a 5.8 this season. I think it has helped me get the most out of my kit and skills to get the board plaining. Things I try to do are, Don't bother trying to plain unless I know I'll get going...Endless pumping wears me out quick. Get my boom up a bit higher to help get my weight off my feet. Get in the lines and straps as quick as I can and use gusts, chop and waves to help get me going. Once plaining keep everything trimmed and keep the movements to a minimum to stay on the plain, Bear away to keep speed when it lulls to power up but not to the point I will loose ground, If I'm going loose ground I just slog upwind until the next gust comes, Always keep looking upwind for the next gust.

I was out yesterday testing my Soloshot and got some footage, I'm on a 115L quad with a 5.4 wave sail in 5-15 knots of wind and I manage to get the board plaining, I thinks it's a combination of TOW and the right equipment.

Be nice to get going that easily with small gear. Love the music.

jh2703 said...
I'm a heavy weight at 100kgs and have been making myself use nothing bigger then a 5.8 this season. I think it has helped me get the most out of my kit and skills to get the board plaining. Things I try to do are, Don't bother trying to plain unless I know I'll get going...Endless pumping wears me out quick. Get my boom up a bit higher to help get my weight off my feet. Get in the lines and straps as quick as I can and use gusts, chop and waves to help get me going. Once plaining keep everything trimmed and keep the movements to a minimum to stay on the plain, Bear away to keep speed when it lulls to power up but not to the point I will loose ground, If I'm going loose ground I just slog upwind until the next gust comes, Always keep looking upwind for the next gust.

I was out yesterday testing my Soloshot and got some footage, I'm on a 115L quad with a 5.4 wave sail in 5-15 knots of wind and I manage to get the board plaining, I thinks it's a combination of TOW and the right equipment.

Nice flat water! Spot-on with your comments JH, but as you mention it comes down to technique & TOW. Don't waste your energy on pumping for little gusts, wait for a good one that you know will carry you through.

Funnily enough, if you know that you're going to be underpowered when you rig up, it's not as deflating plodding along & picking up the odd puff. It's when you're keen for a speed sesh & get out there to find out that you've rigged too small & don't have the time to change sails. I used to go when I knew I didn't have big enough gear...now I grab my SUP.

Btw...100kgs isn't a heavyweight IMO!