thedoor, I'm regular size guy - 80 kg, 178 cm. I don't use sails over 6.8, and most of the time use 5.7 - 6.1 on 95 liters Freewave.
Would i76 fly in 8-10 knots of wind with say 5.0 - 5.5 sail? I don't mind to pump.

motogon said..
Is there significant difference between i84 and i99? I'm using "old" 68 wing for 3 years now. I'm "occasional" foiler, as prefer fin sailing when there is enough wind. I did demo of i84 in October (it was 10-13 knots day, i84 x 48 combo on Levitator 130 with 4.4 sail): I did like how easy foil get up, but I didn't like how slow it is. I assume i99 even slower?

I99 is a bit slower and takes a bit more back foot pressure. Once it lifts you have to be straight in the straps.The wind range is somewhat limited so for my weight (92kg) I use the i99 in 5-15

the i84 in 10-18+. This is my most used size wing in the quiver.

the i76 and TC 68 are excellent wings but need more wind for me.

CoreAS said..

I use the i99 in 5-15

the i84 in 10-18+. This is my most used size wing in the quiver.

the i76 and TC 68 are excellent wings but need more wind for me.

Could use i99 with 7.0 sail in 5-15, 6.0 in 10-18 and 5.0 19+ rather than going to smaller wing? I like the slowness and balance of i99 and would like to develop my skills before going to faster wings.

CoreAS said..
I haven't tried the FS 115 yet but maybe because it has a narrower tail you might lose a bit of leverage for upwind work? the 125 wizard has that "slab" of a tail you can really dig your heel against and drive that thing
sounds like the i99 (we nicknamed the whales tail) is working well for you though

Maybe but the FS115 goes upwind very well on the other wings. My guess is it's got more to do with the fact that it foils so early that there is not enough umph to point very high. It was going upwind when foiling but more windsurfer angles and the pointing did improve with more wind.

dejavu said..
What's interesting to me is that we seem to have two almost separate foiling sports -- race orientated and free ride. The bigger wings allow small sails in conditions you'd think would be impossible to get up on foil. A 6.0 metre sail in 5 to 10 knots? I would have thought this to be impossible before I started foiling -- not anymore!

I'm not interested in rigging 10 metre sails anymore. Foiling has me very excited again and its these low wind foils that are opening up so many non-windsurfing days and turning them into fun days, without thinking about whether or not to try a 12.0 metre sail.

Next will be the wind wing (bigger ones are coming for lower winds).

Agreed. I've tried both modes and they both rock. But as a surfer, when I realized on the larger win

gs

I could surf chop, strapless w a 5.3.....I was hooked. Once you stand upright and let the sail luff out and just feel the wave energy....it's hard to want to do anything else.

I do have to show some love for the i76, its the quickest of all the wings and its my go to for trying new tricks (foil duck gybe and 360)
it flys upwind....Not sure if its my imagination but it seems to foil higher on the mast as well?

i84 just gives me more throttle through holes and carries through light wind gybing very well.

Dejavu,

I went down the race foil route in the beginning (JP135, 7.8 RS flight and F4 foil) it was very powerful and very quick upwind/downwind but I now prefer pushing as smaller kit as possible. The slingshot foil wings are easy to change out without changing sail size, smooth feedback and overall much more fun.

Here's a little theory I have, not sure if it's right. I'm on the 115 Freestyle too, i76 wing, weigh 90 kg and foil in light winds with a 5.4, my biggest freestyle sail. As soon as there's enough wind to pump, I can easily get on the foil. In my experience, a sail has a windspeed threshold below which it simply can't be pumped effectively.

So in my mind, as an active sailor with good pumping technique, I wouldn't get going earlier with a larger wing. It may deliver more lift, but what sets the limit to get on the foil is not the lack of lift from the i76, but the threshold when my sail becomes pumpable. Or am I missing something?

Please don't read into this that I think people shouldn't be on large wings or any stupid claims like that. Just curious.

Jameos said..
Here's a little theory I have, not sure if it's right. I'm on the 115 Freestyle too, i76 wing, weigh 90 kg and foil in light winds with a 5.4, my biggest freestyle sail. As soon as there's enough wind to pump, I can easily get on the foil. In my experience, a sail has a windspeed threshold below which it simply can't be pumped effectively.

So in my mind, as an active sailor with good pumping technique, I wouldn't get going earlier with a larger wing. It may deliver more lift, but what sets the limit to get on the foil is not the lack of lift from the i76, but the threshold when my sail becomes pumpable. Or am I missing something?

Please don't read into this that I think people shouldn't be on large wings or any stupid claims like that. Just curious.

I think you make a good point; however, I believe the strength of the larger wings is their ability to effortlessly go through lulls once up. I say "effortlessly" meaning that you don't have to start pumping or meticulously trim your sail, etc. -- you just glide through to the next little gust.

dejavu said..

Jameos said..
Here's a little theory I have, not sure if it's right. I'm on the 115 Freestyle too, i76 wing, weigh 90 kg and foil in light winds with a 5.4, my biggest freestyle sail. As soon as there's enough wind to pump, I can easily get on the foil. In my experience, a sail has a windspeed threshold below which it simply can't be pumped effectively.

So in my mind, as an active sailor with good pumping technique, I wouldn't get going earlier with a larger wing. It may deliver more lift, but what sets the limit to get on the foil is not the lack of lift from the i76, but the threshold when my sail becomes pumpable. Or am I missing something?

Please don't read into this that I think people shouldn't be on large wings or any stupid claims like that. Just curious.

I think you make a good point; however, I believe the strength of the larger wings is their ability to effortlessly go through lulls once up. I say "effortlessly" meaning that you don't have to start pumping or meticulously trim your sail, etc. -- you just glide through to the next little gust.

I agree with deja

This is for James: you might be right, but wouldn't a larger sail be pumpable in lighter wind.

Another thing, am nearly at the point where pumping on to the foil is not the limiting variable, the limiting variable is the ability to stay up on the foil without pumping and I think a bigger sail would probably assist with that.

Jameos said..
Good points. Sure, a larger sail would go earlier in light winds, I just wondered if a larger foil would, too. Don't want to use any larger than 5.4 on the windsurfboard.

Yeah there is a lot of variables. For me with the same sail I can get up easier and stay up longer with the 99.

@ excav8ter

Seems like you feel you can get more out of the 99 with larger sails (eg 8.0 v 7.0 v 6.0). I am yet to try anything bigger than a 5.7 and was wondering at what point does more sail size not make additional benefit,

thedoor said..
@ excav8ter

Seems like you feel you can get more out of the 99 with larger sails (eg 8.0 v 7.0 v 6.0). I am yet to try anything bigger than a 5.7 and was wondering at what point does more sail size not make additional benefit,

I'm still learning this whole foiling thing. Maybe I am using sails that are too big for a particular wind speed, but it feels pretty comfortable for me. I'm not after speed, as much as I am after stability right now. I am hoping to get comfortable with downwind wind foiling this year. Also, getting out in the lightest wind possible.

I have no one to practice with where I live... heck, I don't even know anyone who windsurfs anymore.

I may be off on my wind speed vs. sail size, but I feel I am pretty close. I use a Skywatch anemometer to help me figure out wind speed.

Hey excav8ter, I'm with you on not having anyone to practice with. Well, there is one guy, but he can't join me that often at my local windfoiling spots in the Columbia Basin of eastern Washington state.

Fortunately, I can get down to the far eastern gorge spots (Roosevelt, 3-Mile, Arlington) in 75 minutes. There you do start to see other windsurfers and kiters, but not too many foilers yet. (But we're working on that.) Many many many foilers down further west in the gorge.

I actually think a bit of speed (such as 20 mph boat speed) is a good thing for foiling. Like many things in windsurfing, too, speed stabilizes things. As such, my wings of 779 cm2, 940 cm2, and 1120 cm2 are plenty for easy lift. I weigh 90 kg. Even the 1120 will stall the mast at really low speed if I try to milk it in really light wind. It is better to use a bigger sail and get everything going a little faster on the water. My go-to sizes are 6.4 and 7.0, sometimes a 5.0.

That said, the i76 is very popular around the Pacific NW. Even gorge guys in strong winds like the i76 with really small sails--down to 2.6 on those big days.

Notice I say "guys." I have yet to see any women windfoilers, even in the Gorge.

So, excav8ter, if you are coming out to the gorge, stop by here on your way, and I will show you some nice windfoiling spots. This youtube shows my favorite spot.

excav8ter said..

thedoor said..

excav8ter said..

thedoor said..
@ excav8ter

Seems like you feel you can get more out of the 99 with larger sails (eg 8.0 v 7.0 v 6.0). I am yet to try anything bigger than a 5.7 and was wondering at what point does more sail size not make additional benefit,

I'm still learning this whole foiling thing. Maybe I am using sails that are too big for a particular wind speed, but it feels pretty comfortable for me. I'm not after speed, as much as I am after stability right now. I am hoping to get comfortable with downwind wind foiling this year. Also, getting out in the lightest wind possible.

I have no one to practice with where I live... heck, I don't even know anyone who windsurfs anymore.

I may be off on my wind speed vs. sail size, but I feel I am pretty close. I use a Skywatch anemometer to help me figure out wind speed.

Yeah, I have only have 2 sessions on the 99 so there is still experimenting to do.

How much do you pump to get going?

PS: just reread your earlier post. I am pretty certain you will be able to go from the 99 to the 76 when you do play try to down size.

I have been thinking about getting the i76, but want to spend more time on the i84 this spring and summer. I have an Fwind1 wing too... which I was told is the same as a Gamma 68 (?). I have never used it, because I don't think I am ready for it yet....and may never be.

I was turned on to wind foiling by the potential of getting flying in 7mph+ breezes... we have so many light wind days in the summer, that I want to be able to take advantage of that. One of my best days last fall was 8-12mph with my 8.0 Ezzy Cheetah, on my Fanatic Falcon lightwind with the i99 front wing. I had 2.5 hours of flying that afternoon. I have since bought a 10.0 Maui sail for hopefully the 6-10mph range.

I see. If you already have the 84 and the blue 68, then the 76 is redundant.

Sounds like you are really pushing the light wind boundaries with that 10m.

We will be interested to know if you see an advantage over your 8m.

excav8ter said..

thedoor said..

excav8ter said..

thedoor said..
@ excav8ter

Seems like you feel you can get more out of the 99 with larger sails (eg 8.0 v 7.0 v 6.0). I am yet to try anything bigger than a 5.7 and was wondering at what point does more sail size not make additional benefit,

I'm still learning this whole foiling thing. Maybe I am using sails that are too big for a particular wind speed, but it feels pretty comfortable for me. I'm not after speed, as much as I am after stability right now. I am hoping to get comfortable with downwind wind foiling this year. Also, getting out in the lightest wind possible.

I have no one to practice with where I live... heck, I don't even know anyone who windsurfs anymore.

I may be off on my wind speed vs. sail size, but I feel I am pretty close. I use a Skywatch anemometer to help me figure out wind speed.

Yeah, I have only have 2 sessions on the 99 so there is still experimenting to do.

How much do you pump to get going?

PS: just reread your earlier post. I am pretty certain you will be able to go from the 99 to the 76 when you do play try to down size.

I have been thinking about getting the i76, but want to spend more time on the i84 this spring and summer. I have an Fwind1 wing too... which I was told is the same as a Gamma 68 (?). I have never used it, because I don't think I am ready for it yet....and may never be.

I was turned on to wind foiling by the potential of getting flying in 7mph+ breezes... we have so many light wind days in the summer, that I want to be able to take advantage of that. One of my best days last fall was 8-12mph with my 8.0 Ezzy Cheetah, on my Fanatic Falcon lightwind with the i99 front wing. I had 2.5 hours of flying that afternoon. I have since bought a 10.0 Maui sail for hopefully the 6-10mph range.

A 10.0 is huge for freeride foiling. But it seems like you got the right board for it anyway. What kind of speed does the 99 do with a 8.0?

This is me trying out a 9.9 in almost no wind. It was a monster and definitely too big for me and my JP 135 worked ok with a formula board though. My biggest sail I use now is a 7.8 foil/ slalom sail and I bet I can get foiling earlier with it then the 9.9. Some of it might be sail technology and all that weight of a big old sail. Uphualing was not fun especially when your only 65kgs. That was the first and last time I tryed a 9.9 with a foil