Boemix said..
Anyone had the chance to try the new ezzy hydra pro in fin mode? I really like the HS concept, but to me it looks like the Taka with the 3/4 batten, a sail I had before and didn't matched the gusty conditions I usually ride, so it got replaced by Legacy.
But then people who have used the HS say it handles gusts very well, something that the Taka never did for me, so I'm puzzled right now.
I'm interested in the 5'7 size, to use with a 116 fsw (Tabou 3S) board and a surf style foil (Hypernut+Moses combo).

I've posted on this thread before about the Hydra Sport - with good review comments. However I've had a bit of change of heart about the Hydra Sport (6.7)

Reason is that I bought a 3 batten surfwave sail for foiling (Goya Fringe X 5.0)
In past two weeks I was able to make a direct comparison between the HS 6.7 and the Fringe 5.0. And I am almost starting to conclude that I need to sell the HS.

Specifically I am starting to disagree with this 3-4 batten concept, which seemed ideal for foiling since it allows the sail to "balloon" above the boom, and this allows you to get going in light wind settings. And it does allow you to get going with ease. At the time I bought the HS this was a bit my issue and main concern: how to get going, from standstill, into slight plane, and then creating foil wing lift.

At the same time the 3-4 batten "ballooning" seems like a big handicap when in flight mode. Especially when gusts hit you, even moderate gusts. Let me explain: every time you are flying, and a gust hits and the 3-4 batten area balloons, the sail instantly creates huge lift. This lift translates into the foil wanting to rise too much. This then requires a correction by the rider. In the end the whole ride becomes a up and down experience.

In same conditions with the Fringe, gusts translate into more forward speed. And if it feels too dodgy, you just lean more into upwind 'safe mode'. The Fringe surprised me with its very direct feel, and able to translate the same light wind into forward pressure. In other words I can get going in same conditions with the 5.0 Fringe as I would with the 6.7 HS, and the Fringe gives me a much more stable ride (height wise).

Also the Fringe allows me to go upwind much better. I struggle to go upwind with HS 6.7. See pictures below. Same conditions. The HS (1st pic) struggling to get upwind.. The Fringe (2nd pic) just begging me to go higher and higher! Pic 1 = lots of back pain. Pic 2 = pure feeling of stoke + gps battery died.

I also tried the HS in more medium-high wind setting, to flatten the 3-4 batten more. That made ride height more stable, BUT the sail became suddenly much more heavier.

Anyone out there with similar comparison/observations? Hydra concept vs. wave sail? Maybe I am doing something wrong...

All of this has made me very skeptical about so called foil specific sails. The only foil specific-ness about a sail I believe is that it should be of much lighter material. I am honestly a bit sad about these observations since I really was believing in the Hydra Sport concept but not anymore.

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MProject04 said..
...All of this has made me very skeptical about so called foil specific sails. The only foil specific-ness about a sail I believe is that it should be of much lighter material. I am honestly a bit sad about these observations since I really was believing in the Hydra Sport concept but not anymore.

The Hydra series are distinctly different than many other foil specific sails especially >6.0. It's an entirely different design philosophy from the Foil Glide, Flyer, Skyscape, F-Type, Air Ride, Iris X, etc.: Generally though, most larger foil-specific sails are lower batten count, higher aspect/shorter boom, tighter leached and cammed vs their finned rec brethren. I'm not dismissing your thoughts on the Hydras, just suggesting that there's more than one way to cook a "foil-specific" sail. The differences seem minor but all together do matter. Below 6.0, I don't think it means as much if anything. Above 6, I think it does. 6.0 is my break point and others will have theirs.
Bruce Peterson three years ago:

I can't comment on the Fringe as I've never ridden one, but I have ridden the original Hydra (Similar to the Hydra Pro) 5.5 and I greatly prefer it to regular non-foiling specific sails that I've foiled in the same size. I have found the "canard" wingtip under the boom gives me a bit more balanced backhand pressure and really helps in lightwind when I'm "paddling" the sail and pumping the foil through holes. I am a strong believer in the short battens, at least not on huge sails, I haven't tried anything bigger than the 5.5 , but I really love the depower it offers in higher winds. I haven't experienced any difference in getting upwind vs. a standard windsurf sail.

IndecentExposur said..
Well, the new 8.2 is sailing very well.... just sayin

NordRoi said..

MProject04 said..

All of this has made me very skeptical about so called foil specific sails. The only foil specific-ness about a sail I believe is that it should be of much lighter material. I am honestly a bit sad about these observations since I really was believing in the Hydra Sport concept but not anymore.

Give a shout to David.

Usually he sets his Hydra at Max downhaul and Max outhaul I think, but double check with him.

Although I'm not David, the key is to really flatten the sail with outhaul. You get great backhand pressure on the Hydra; when you pump to get on a flight, it's much easier to do.

NordRoi said..
I'm all the opposite. The fact that I max my outhaul and mid to max my downhaul, i can pump much faster and generate more power...as soon as I'm up, it seems to be faster and do better in lulls. But I'm using slow foil, pryde medium.

...which is a good point to make. Foil sail settings should be different based on the type of foil you're on. IF you're on a low aspect vs. high aspect foil, the speeds are different, especially when you're on a flight with different apparent winds.

MProject04 said..

IndecentExposur said..

IndecentExposur said..
Well, the new 8.2 is sailing very well.... just sayin

Beautiful color! Didnt know this was available. Has the clew become shorter on the new Hydra Pro?

Thanks everyone for the thoughts... I had mailed with David a few months back and he suggested that the sail works better and as intended in the med-high settings.

I've practically always used the sail in min (light wind) mode, and gotten so used to it because it got me going, and flying so easily that I was perhaps reluctant to go to med-high settings. But maybe its time for me to use these settings more and get more comfortable.

So not giving up yet on the Hydra.. will test a bit more! But I do stand by my observation that the Fringe is giving me so much of an easier time, effortless really, and stable. But will try to make the Hydra work.. probably one needs to change a bit of style and adapt.

This is a prototype. Working through different settings. Maximizing DH and pulling OH to 150% of the long cord is providing a longer and shallow draft. Pumping the sail to a flight puts the pressure further aft, so getting power to move fast is easier. Once on a flight, it does even better.
Note the VERY light wind in this video.



You'll have to forgive my bad gybe. I missed grabbing the other side of the boom.

Robertos said..
No worries - happens to the best of us I've been trimming my Hydra Pro 8,5 on minimum in light winds, but I don't get the power I need from pumping. Also the backwind is killing me in the gybes. Next time I will give it a go with max DH and 150% long chord on the outhaul. Tnx for the tip

With larger sails and really light winds, it's easier to bare off and go to a broad reach (slow down), gybe, and back to a broad reach before heading up wind. Nico Prien talks about this on his video. Also, shove the mast end across the board further. Big sails aren't easy, but can be done once you figure out the formula.

BTW, even medium DH works too, just really pull that OH out 150% or 125%.

Thanks again for the tips, I will try again next time on the water.

MProject04 said..

IndecentExposur said..

Robertos said..
No worries - happens to the best of us I've been trimming my Hydra Pro 8,5 on minimum in light winds, but I don't get the power I need from pumping. Also the backwind is killing me in the gybes. Next time I will give it a go with max DH and 150% long chord on the outhaul. Tnx for the tip

With larger sails and really light winds, it's easier to bare off and go to a broad reach (slow down), gybe, and back to a broad reach before heading up wind. Nico Prien talks about this on his video. Also, shove the mast end across the board further. Big sails aren't easy, but can be done once you figure out the formula.

BTW, even medium DH works too, just really pull that OH out 150% or 125%.

Question: when pulling the OH on the long chord, what is best practice?
- have the sail laying on the ground completely untouched and adjusting boom to long chord?
- or standing and slightly pulling the sail out and then adjusting the boom? If the latter.. how much is 'slightly'

When I'm rigging the Hyda, I stand at the boom(clew), rest the boom on my hip, and pull the sail just barely until it finds resistance. From there, I set the boom. So my favorite settings are medium DH (fuller sail), and 100%-130% of the long cord. If you have an older Hydra, getting a flatter sail helps a lot.

Can we really compare a 6.7 HS to 5.5 Fringe?

LeeD said..
Can we really compare a 6.7 HS to 5.5 Fringe?

on paper you'd think absolutely not. But if in 10 kts of wind I get a better performance with the smaller sail than the bigger. And both sails don't get me going in 9 kts.. then it makes to wonder....

But I'll definitely try IndecentExposur setup advice.. trying to make an apple into a PEAR(L)!!