Another fatal shark attack in WA 31/3

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doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
3 Apr 2012 4:39pm
beastsurf said...

I Dont want to inflame the subject so please don't take this the wrong way. My wife was listening to the radio yesturday and there was crew from the wa govt taking about a shark breeding program that is currently in place. When asked about the numbers of sharks and the safety of people in relation to shark numbers the govt rep said no comment. No comment is a bit piss pore. this is the first I have heard of such a program and as i am writing this i have decided to find out a bit more about the matter. Has any one heard about the shark breeding program?


No, but I would be interested to know what type of shark they intend on breeding.
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
3 Apr 2012 4:48pm
beastsurf said...

I Dont want to inflame the subject so please don't take this the wrong way. My wife was listening to the radio yesturday and there was crew from the wa govt taking about a shark breeding program that is currently in place. When asked about the numbers of sharks and the safety of people in relation to shark numbers the govt rep said no comment. No comment is a bit piss pore. this is the first I have heard of such a program and as i am writing this i have decided to find out a bit more about the matter. Has any one heard about the shark breeding program?


That would be interesting. To be honest though the sharks we are talking about are very very old. Not just a few years of breading..

Keep us informed.
smicko
smicko
WA
2503 posts
WA, 2503 posts
3 Apr 2012 5:08pm
soleman said...

smicko said...

soleman said...

Hey smicko try 1.6ks off the beach and four fatalities in 6 months is not cool, then try to remember south point not that long ago. the south west communities are shocked again today so please lets not turn this into a high and mighty "you all know the risks session". Some one has been killed today! That bloke in cott was about 350m off the beach, less than the distance of surfing margs on a decent day. the bloke on rotto was anchored just out of one of the bays over there, Also dont forget the poor bloke in port kennedy, the two at cott in the early years of the 2000's, a survivor off bunbury, Brad smith in gracetown etc. End of the day it is terrible and nobody wants this sort of stuff happening. please, lets keep it cool this time lads.


Hey soleman, my comment was based on an earlier report that had the brothers 15km off Port Geo marina, rather than 15km NORTH of Port Geo marina. Regardless 1.6k's is still a long way offshore and I dare say they would've been in 8-10m+ of water plus a pretty damn good chance of them spearfishing or looping crays - feeding stimuli. It's the sort of country these things live and feed in. If you don't want to risk being a statistic don't go there.

I know I get spooked anytime I'm surfing North or South Points and many other places along that stretch, however I weigh up the odds and that's a choice I choose to make. Tell ya what though, there's no fkn way you'd catch me paddling across the bay from one break to the other. Nor would you find me swimming 350m off Cott in 10m+ of water and having lived on The Rock for nearly three years I can tell you I was always very circumspect about diving around the Island. I was just careful about how I did it, I never, EVER dived around Cathy's and generally stuck pretty close to the shore, there's still plenty of nice fish, swim throughs etc without venturing hundreds of meters offshore.

In Indo I paddle across deep water without a second thought, I won't do it here. That's what I mean by "We all know the risks and it's up to us..."

As in my previous post, if we had more instances like Brian Guest's death(15m or so from the beach in 5m of water) then I'd be happy to look at culling but we simply don't. The stats are saying that if you swim or dive in 10m+ of water or surf around areas with a steep drop off and/or seals then you have an increased chance of an encounter. It's up to us to make that choice.








Understandably so smicko but lets just have a little bit af tact from time to time. I was not having a crack at your opinion and was emotionally charged when i replied to your post, i do agree that we all have our own thoughts and views and they are valid for debate, but the timing was out mate, two young kids and a wife lost their Dad / husband, a family lost their son / brother. the population of the south west from margs to bunbury are either keen surfers, fishos, divers (or all) are tight knit and were shocked as i already mentioned. Stratham is west of capel and not many can say they have seen a big boy out there before, like cow bay it was seen as a pretty safe place for a dive in comparison to the capes region. "there's still plenty of nice fish, swim throughs etc without venturing hundreds of meters offshore." maybe on rotto, not so much here.



The timing could never be more apt, some poor bugger has just been killed by a large predator, again! What better time to discuss the fact that we have a population of big animals swimming around our coastline that are perfectly capable of having us for lunch??

It's time that people started taking responsibility for their actions and stop putting themselves in dangerous situations if they don't want to accept the consequences of their actions. And like it or not, diving a coupla k's offshore, surfing Bonies or Southpoint or Lefties or pretty much any spot down there is putting yourself in the domain of White Sharks and ergo a dangerous situation.

The amount of big Dhuies and Sambo's I've seen monstered fishing less than 3k's off our coast is just plain ridiculous and if you've ever fished the snapper spawn in Cockburn Sound or jigged the barges for Sambo's then you'd have a reasonable idea of the number of sharks in our waters, there's lots. The last couple of years there's even been nutters in kayaks fishing the snapper spawn in Cockburn at night! It can only be a matter of time before one of these twits gets themselves killed.

I'd no sooner jump out of a boat a couple of k's offshore for a feed of crays than I'd partake in a three legged race across the freeway at peakhour. My chances of surviving the dive and ending up with a feed of crays would be a hell of a lot better than getting across the freeway in one piece but it's just not a risk I'm prepared to take. That's the choice I make.

I think the reason we're having more attacks is quite simply more people in the water, more often.



doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
3 Apr 2012 5:32pm
jbshack said...

beastsurf said...

I Dont want to inflame the subject so please don't take this the wrong way. My wife was listening to the radio yesturday and there was crew from the wa govt taking about a shark breeding program that is currently in place. When asked about the numbers of sharks and the safety of people in relation to shark numbers the govt rep said no comment. No comment is a bit piss pore. this is the first I have heard of such a program and as i am writing this i have decided to find out a bit more about the matter. Has any one heard about the shark breeding program?


That would be interesting. To be honest though the sharks we are talking about are very very old. Not just a few years of breading..

Keep us informed.


Out of interest, how old would a 5m GWS be?
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
3 Apr 2012 7:48pm
About 15 years old. GW sharks dont become mature untill about 10 to 12 years of age. Only googled info.
newguy
newguy
654 posts
654 posts
3 Apr 2012 8:44pm
smicko said...

soleman said...

smicko said...

soleman said...

Hey smicko try 1.6ks off the beach and four fatalities in 6 months is not cool, then try to remember south point not that long ago. the south west communities are shocked again today so please lets not turn this into a high and mighty "you all know the risks session". Some one has been killed today! That bloke in cott was about 350m off the beach, less than the distance of surfing margs on a decent day. the bloke on rotto was anchored just out of one of the bays over there, Also dont forget the poor bloke in port kennedy, the two at cott in the early years of the 2000's, a survivor off bunbury, Brad smith in gracetown etc. End of the day it is terrible and nobody wants this sort of stuff happening. please, lets keep it cool this time lads.


Hey soleman, my comment was based on an earlier report that had the brothers 15km off Port Geo marina, rather than 15km NORTH of Port Geo marina. Regardless 1.6k's is still a long way offshore and I dare say they would've been in 8-10m+ of water plus a pretty damn good chance of them spearfishing or looping crays - feeding stimuli. It's the sort of country these things live and feed in. If you don't want to risk being a statistic don't go there.

I know I get spooked anytime I'm surfing North or South Points and many other places along that stretch, however I weigh up the odds and that's a choice I choose to make. Tell ya what though, there's no fkn way you'd catch me paddling across the bay from one break to the other. Nor would you find me swimming 350m off Cott in 10m+ of water and having lived on The Rock for nearly three years I can tell you I was always very circumspect about diving around the Island. I was just careful about how I did it, I never, EVER dived around Cathy's and generally stuck pretty close to the shore, there's still plenty of nice fish, swim throughs etc without venturing hundreds of meters offshore.

In Indo I paddle across deep water without a second thought, I won't do it here. That's what I mean by "We all know the risks and it's up to us..."

As in my previous post, if we had more instances like Brian Guest's death(15m or so from the beach in 5m of water) then I'd be happy to look at culling but we simply don't. The stats are saying that if you swim or dive in 10m+ of water or surf around areas with a steep drop off and/or seals then you have an increased chance of an encounter. It's up to us to make that choice.








Understandably so smicko but lets just have a little bit af tact from time to time. I was not having a crack at your opinion and was emotionally charged when i replied to your post, i do agree that we all have our own thoughts and views and they are valid for debate, but the timing was out mate, two young kids and a wife lost their Dad / husband, a family lost their son / brother. the population of the south west from margs to bunbury are either keen surfers, fishos, divers (or all) are tight knit and were shocked as i already mentioned. Stratham is west of capel and not many can say they have seen a big boy out there before, like cow bay it was seen as a pretty safe place for a dive in comparison to the capes region. "there's still plenty of nice fish, swim throughs etc without venturing hundreds of meters offshore." maybe on rotto, not so much here.



The timing could never be more apt, some poor bugger has just been killed by a large predator, again! What better time to discuss the fact that we have a population of big animals swimming around our coastline that are perfectly capable of having us for lunch??

It's time that people started taking responsibility for their actions and stop putting themselves in dangerous situations if they don't want to accept the consequences of their actions. And like it or not, diving a coupla k's offshore, surfing Bonies or Southpoint or Lefties or pretty much any spot down there is putting yourself in the domain of White Sharks and ergo a dangerous situation.

The amount of big Dhuies and Sambo's I've seen monstered fishing less than 3k's off our coast is just plain ridiculous and if you've ever fished the snapper spawn in Cockburn Sound or jigged the barges for Sambo's then you'd have a reasonable idea of the number of sharks in our waters, there's lots. The last couple of years there's even been nutters in kayaks fishing the snapper spawn in Cockburn at night! It can only be a matter of time before one of these twits gets themselves killed.

I'd no sooner jump out of a boat a couple of k's offshore for a feed of crays than I'd partake in a three legged race across the freeway at peakhour. My chances of surviving the dive and ending up with a feed of crays would be a hell of a lot better than getting across the freeway in one piece but it's just not a risk I'm prepared to take. That's the choice I make.

I think the reason we're having more attacks is quite simply more people in the water, more often.






Smicko's right about this. There's just so much sensational over hype by the media like the surf rescue carnival situation over east. At the end of the day we've got to realise something. We are animals, sharks are animals. We've just thickly got it in our head thinking we are on top of the food chain. But we are not and we have to respect that. We share our planet with all these other animals and they deserve just as much right to live on it. Spiritually, emotionally and physically it is very very sad for us to grieve of loved ones lost to other animals. But what makes us different from the gazelle that gets killed by a hunting lion? At the end of the day, we have to realise the dangers that are around us and respect it. We have to know the dangers we get into and accept in order to do what we want/ love.

I have not read the rest of this post but if anyone has AGAIN brought up the topic of culling, how would you like it if we ate cows but they were the dominant species on earth and decided to start culling us. All we can do is grieve and give our thoughts to the family and support them.
Sham1984
Sham1984
VIC
415 posts
VIC, 415 posts
3 Apr 2012 11:03pm
I was under the assumption we weren't going to debate in this thread.

And newguy, we (humans) are 100% at the top of the food chain.
Beelzebub
Beelzebub
WA
145 posts
WA, 145 posts
3 Apr 2012 9:12pm
[We share our planet with all these other animals and they deserve just as much right to live on it.


Presumably then it is not OK to kill these other animals for food.
How about kangaroos? Should the country speed limit perhaps be reduced so there is less road kill? After all, the bush is their domain.
bakesy
bakesy
WA
682 posts
WA, 682 posts
3 Apr 2012 9:28pm
Sham, I'd say that when I get in the water with just a bit of fibreglass i don't feel like I'm at the top of the food chain. Smicko's claims of monstered fish don't equate with my experience as I've caught plenty of sharks over the years but I've never seen a white inside 20ks, this is why I take the risks I do but that doesn't mean that this season hasn't made me think about it, heaps of crew just look at you with disdain when you tell them that you surf. Bit like the way I look at dudes who ride bikes or jump out of perfectly good aircraft.
newguy
newguy
654 posts
654 posts
3 Apr 2012 9:42pm
Sham1984 said...

I was under the assumption we weren't going to debate in this thread.

And newguy, we (humans) are 100% at the top of the food chain.


Theoretically your right, but if we jump into the environments of all these man eating predators, you know we ain't going to be around. But I know what you mean mate and look how much of an unfortunate stuff up we've done to the planet.

Beelzebub said...

[We share our planet with all these other animals and they deserve just as much right to live on it.


Presumably then it is not OK to kill these other animals for food.
How about kangaroos? Should the country speed limit perhaps be reduced so there is less road kill? After all, the bush is their domain.


I love how people will try turn your words against you in an arguement Speed limit not but awareness yes. Too many people these days are so caught up in the rat race of life, themselves and their own bills and mortgages and even keeping up with the Jones getting the latest t.v. etc. Maybe if people realised the world is not centred around them, we can prevent global pollution, accept the dangers in the things we do instead of making a big out roar of it all and lead lives that are much more simpler and happier.
newguy
newguy
654 posts
654 posts
3 Apr 2012 9:53pm
Having re-read through this thread and with everyone protecting themselves from 'inflaming this topic', I'm going to stop here with one statement that sums it all I believe:

If you go in the water like anywhere else, know the dangers and accept the consequences.

We only have problems because people can't accept that. It's second nature like how elephants will gather around a passed away fellow animal for weeks not able to apprehend the death.
bakesy
bakesy
WA
682 posts
WA, 682 posts
3 Apr 2012 10:51pm
yep, well said newie, this is a forum of people that are directly effected by this issue and we empathise with the families and friends of those left to cope with these tragedies. We all know that the last 6 months has been the worst ever for GWS attacks and perhaps feel that because we are a smallish group in relation to the population that perhaps not enough is being done or that research is not a priority. Our thoughts are with those who have been directly effected but also for our own rights as taxpayers and water users to ensure we can limit the devastating effects of these attacks in the future so that fewer kids are left without fathers.
WATER MAN
WATER MAN
WA
139 posts
WA, 139 posts
4 Apr 2012 4:54am
You all hate my opinion but, Eat the monsters! Fish and chips is so costly these days.
I'm simple, I like the odds my way, I will to the day I die.
swalkington
swalkington
WA
401 posts
WA, 401 posts
4 Apr 2012 6:37am
^^^^
+1
Torch
Torch
WA
521 posts
WA, 521 posts
4 Apr 2012 7:58am
If Crocodiles can be removed from Darwin Harbour for human safety, why cant large sharks be also be removed from populated areas of Western Australia?

Just wondering....

Andy T
Andy T
WA
325 posts
WA, 325 posts
4 Apr 2012 8:13am
Having listened to all... Here's my 2c. I agree with all of you!
If white numbers have increased off our wa coast rapidly over last couple of years? Is it because of human intervention? If so, humans should correct the balance, before there is an equal unatural offset in some other part of the ecosystem (I don't mean shark attacks on humans) If this is purely a natural phenomenon then leave it alone and let nature take it's course!

As newguy says, you go where they are at your choice, you choose to accept the consequences.
crusher
crusher
NT
104 posts
NT, 104 posts
4 Apr 2012 9:49am
I heard on the news the past few nights that there has been repeated sightings of a big white in the Port geograph area. In my judgement the odds are that this would be the same shark that killed this unfortunate person. Surely it then would be a rational decision to terminate the animal. The same thing happens all over the world in similar situations every day. We would all be guilty of making decisions that put our own safety and comfort above the protection of other species and the balance of the natural environment, who kills red backs when they see them in them hiding under a garden seat ect ect.

I am not advocating indiscriminate culling, but a measured response to public safety issue.

RIP mate



Andy T
Andy T
WA
325 posts
WA, 325 posts
4 Apr 2012 8:27am
Guys, as nature loving, spiritual surfers you surprise me! You should think twice about wanting to kill another animal just for living, just for your enjoyment!
Sound like qld rednecks that surround me atm. Hey, quit surfing, come to qld and we can go killing pigs with packs of dogs
doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
4 Apr 2012 8:38am
Torch said...

If Crocodiles can be removed from Darwin Harbour for human safety, why cant large sharks be also be removed from populated areas of Western Australia?

Just wondering....




Im thinking along those lines as well now, only if they know that its the same shark or a resident shark.

Two years ago I would have said leave the thing alone etc etc, but now.......
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
4 Apr 2012 11:35am
doggie said...

Torch said...

If Crocodiles can be removed from Darwin Harbour for human safety, why cant large sharks be also be removed from populated areas of Western Australia?

Just wondering....




Im thinking along those lines as well now, only if they know that its the same shark or a resident shark.

Two years ago I would have said leave the thing alone etc etc, but now.......


Crocodile's are different in many many ways. Firstly Crocodiles are breading at a huge rate. We have been able to prove (100% proof) that Crocs are and have been rebuilding numbers for many years. We have also for years been trying to slow the growth of Crocodile numbers by many different types of means. But yet we still wont just decrements kill crocs, even when they attack.

Great white sharks we have no idea, except for obvious proof that a imbalance is already taking effect through out the ecosystem. I will point out a ecosystem that generates 60% of our oxygen..

Kill of sharks and we could be just shooting ourselves in the foot big time..

I once argued (debated) with someone that Sharks are a direct decendent on teh Devil and that they are doing his work by killing the wicked, it really takes all types

jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
4 Apr 2012 11:40am
There is a bigger picture in my opinion.

We need to consider how we live our lives on this planet? How we interact with those around us, those not close by and those things like the animals and the planet?

I remember the old stickers saying "Leave only your foot prints in the sand". Why not look at the bigger picture and extend that belief beyond our local beach

Sorry if that's a bit deep for some

If we cull the sharks, then were does it stop?
doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
4 Apr 2012 11:44am
jbshack said...

doggie said...

Torch said...

If Crocodiles can be removed from Darwin Harbour for human safety, why cant large sharks be also be removed from populated areas of Western Australia?

Just wondering....




Im thinking along those lines as well now, only if they know that its the same shark or a resident shark.

Two years ago I would have said leave the thing alone etc etc, but now.......


Crocodile's are different in many many ways. Firstly Crocodiles are breading at a huge rate. We have been able to prove (100% proof) that Crocs are and have been rebuilding numbers for many years. We have also for years been trying to slow the growth of Crocodile numbers by many different types of means. But yet we still wont just decrements kill crocs, even when they attack.

Great white sharks we have no idea, except for obvious proof that a imbalance is already taking effect through out the ecosystem. I will point out a ecosystem that generates 60% of our oxygen..

Kill of sharks and we could be just shooting ourselves in the foot big time..

I once argued (debated) with someone that Sharks are a direct decendent on teh Devil and that they are doing his work by killing the wicked, it really takes all types




Im not saying kill them all but just ones that we can prove that have killed people and we need to PROVE it not just say thats him BANG!
The one that got Ken Crew was followed for ages and they didnt kill it, now I think they should have, back then I was glad they didnt.
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
4 Apr 2012 1:38pm
Your right Doggie. My mate was the copper in the boat (inflatable) and he followed it for along time. He said they danced up and down for about 40 minutes waiting for the fisheries to allow them to kill it. Actually the order came to shoot it but it was too late the shark then dived and disappeared.

I was on the beach and you could see it swimming up and down still.

I believe it is only okay to kill a shark, if in the act of the attack it is done to save a life.

As for people saying its the same shark killing that is just pure utter garbage. Every reported attack talks about different sizes for one let alone different distinguishing features..

A different point to make but did anyone see the local fisherman in Grace town who recently got in trouble for washing down his boat, fish blood and guts, massive oil slick in the bay..How stupid is that bloke
worrier
worrier
WA
726 posts
WA, 726 posts
4 Apr 2012 1:39pm
Been a big one hangin around blue holes at Kalbarri for a couple of weeks. It's been nudging a few of the fisho's boats. Fisheries are gonna try and tag it in the next couple of days. Be interesting to see it's movements.
W
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
4 Apr 2012 1:54pm
worrier said...

Been a big one hangin around blue holes at Kalbarri for a couple of weeks. It's been nudging a few of the fisho's boats. Fisheries are gonna try and tag it in the next couple of days. Be interesting to see it's movements.
W


I should also point out there has been many warnings last few weeks about a shark in the Busselton Area.

My prediction is that food supply is slowing up a bit , or at least has somehow changed and we will see all those normally solitary GW sharks coming closer to man all the time. I sadly will also concede that i think attacks will also increase..Although I'd only be happier if they didn't..

This has been a strange season. The water temps and fish migration further south then ever before has been a strange occurrence for sure..Were will it all end?
Woodo
Woodo
WA
792 posts
WA, 792 posts
4 Apr 2012 2:37pm
jbshack said...

My prediction is that food supply is slowing up a bit , or at least has somehow changed and we will see all those normally solitary GW sharks coming closer to man all the time. I sadly will also concede that i think attacks will also increase..Although I'd only be happier if they didn't..

This has been a strange season. The water temps and fish migration further south then ever before has been a strange occurrence for sure..Were will it all end?


Are you kidding me??? The last two years have seen unprecedented amounts of mackerel, sailfish, marlin, dollies, tuna and massive baitballs closer than ever and in metro waters from 3 mile out to the fads due to the rise in water temps.
If anything there is more marine activity/fish up and down our coasts than previous years.

It's only going to be a matter of time before locals and fed up members of the public take action into their own hands. If they aren't already...
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
4 Apr 2012 3:24pm
Woodo said...

jbshack said...

My prediction is that food supply is slowing up a bit , or at least has somehow changed and we will see all those normally solitary GW sharks coming closer to man all the time. I sadly will also concede that i think attacks will also increase..Although I'd only be happier if they didn't..

This has been a strange season. The water temps and fish migration further south then ever before has been a strange occurrence for sure..Were will it all end?


Are you kidding me??? The last two years have seen unprecedented amounts of mackerel, sailfish, marlin, dollies, tuna and massive baitballs closer than ever and in metro waters from 3 mile out to the fads due to the rise in water temps.
If anything there is more marine activity/fish up and down our coasts than previous years.

It's only going to be a matter of time before locals and fed up members of the public take action into their own hands. If they aren't already...


You missed the point. I said more fish have moved into this area due to currents and therefor the sharks have also moved in to feed. But once the warmer currents leave what might happen then. Who knows?
surferstu
surferstu
1011 posts
1011 posts
4 Apr 2012 3:30pm
Surely its time for the resident shark expert to step in where's. Suba!
Woodo
Woodo
WA
792 posts
WA, 792 posts
4 Apr 2012 3:36pm
Ahhhh I see jbshack so by you saying "the food supply is slowing up a bit" what you really mean is "more fish have moved into this area"

Clear as mud mate...
beastsurf
beastsurf
WA
902 posts
WA, 902 posts
4 Apr 2012 5:03pm
Just to clear up my earlier post. i spoke to a rep at the WA fisheries and he assures me there is no Govt funded or any breeding program for sharks. There is a replenishment program dealing with endagered sharks of small breeds ie wobligongs (not sure about the spelling but you get the idea) He said he would know if any program designed to breed large sharks was up and running in WA and insisted there is none. Sorry to raise the alarm. Not sure what they were talking about on the radio. There is a bit of information regarding large predator sharks on the web site. Some of the information talks about differant types of large sharks being in the area all year round but being transiant. From the information provided on the site it would appear that we always have large white sharks here but not nesesary the same ones. Killing one shark that creates a problem for humans may not mean solving the problem or having any future impact at all. If you catch and move the shark arn't you just moving the problem. I'm no expert but with crocs I think they pritty much stay put. Not sure about the shark
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