magillamelb said...
So don't expect to plan to do anything else for the entire weekend except for the event or events you have entered.

That's exactly right.

At last year's nationals, we had a perfect day for the Marathon - ideal downwind conditions sweeping along the coast. Trouble is, Surfing Australia had scheduled themselves into a hold with permits and that ideal downwind marathon day was put aside for the Technical race. As a result, the strong wind made the Technical race extremely challenging. One day later, the same beach was light onshore wind and producing perfect fat waves for a Technical race. Sadly, that was the day for the Marathon, so we had an annoying cross wind all the way down the coast.

An adaptable schedule may seem like an inconvenience, but if it helps provide the best available conditions for a surf comp, technical race, and a marathon, then that's in everyone's best interests.

As for Donald Rumsfeld, wasn't he the bloke who threatened to bomb all long boarders back to the stone age?

Hi I rarely contribute to these forums as I prefer to meet face to face and try to come to the very best compromise, this is the reason I have tried to regularly meet with members of the SUP fraternity, attended a recent SUP Vic committee meeting and have had a number of individual meetings post that night. In organised surfing terms SUP is a relatively young and emerging discipline within the surfing / water sports world. However I would like to just hopefully answer some of the issues being raised as above. The Victorian titles particularly in surfing are only for Victorian's as they are an important part of the team selection process and as someone who has been integrally involved in selecting Victorian surfing (long & short board, open, and masters, school & juniors) the fairest possible way is to only have those who are specifically competing for the team going head to head against each other. Add in a wild card such as inter state competitor and you open yourself up to many vagaries and I would prefer not to have these. In relation to location the best surfers don't care if it is 1 ft or 10 ft as they can win in any conditions yes I agree that Ocean Grove may not be the best location but to get permits for a weekend such as we are trying to run it is a compromise to give a balance between both the racing and surf elements. This is very much what the purpose of the forum is as I have had significant feedback from many elements of the SUP fraternity and I think the best way to create a long term plan is to get everyone in the same room and work out what is our best pathway moving forward. With this in mind it is also our aim to run an event along the same lines as the Aust titles, computerised judging, paid judges, full commentary etc. Since under taking to run SUP events we have tried many formats, locations, canceled when conditions didn't suit, ran in conditions that were extreme but suited some and were seen as wrong by others. The forum is the next step in hopefully finding the best balance to service the fraternity and ultimately maybe even produce a world champion. I invite all to come along to the forum and hopefully we can take the discipline to new levels and run our events professionally and in the fairest possible way. In doing so select the best possible team to represent our state at the nationals and hopefully we will also be able to in the future grow the sport to levels where we are creating open events that will bring in the best possible surfers / paddlers from not just interstate but potentially from around the world.

Go Oneteam!!!
Loving your work
When compromise becomes the gold standard everyone gets screwed....more or less.
Cheers
Sparx

oneteam said...
I think it's not about having a wide array of places to surf but having a quality break to compete on.
If surfing vic is being truthful, have the SUP surfing at the same location as the shortboard location would be (problem solved)
All the other event should be on another weekend as the surfing is more problematic than the racing.
As mister wells has said good surfer can surf anything, well that may be true ,but what !!!! You have to nominate a sub standard wave.
I don't think so!!!!
If you want to encourage participation and draw people to the sport .
Have another think, as part of draw to compete is being able to surf a reasonable wave with only a few out.
Surfing bells with 4 or 6 people in the water was the reason I started competing as a shortboard many years ago and that continued for
15 year.
So having the chance to surf uncrowded quality wave is definitely a draw card to competive surfing.

One Team I agree with every point you make because your looking at it from a view of growing and progressing SUP Surfing.

My background is provision of infrastructure for global events, e.g. Olympics, Comm Games Rugby World Cup etc etc.

So I look at the commercial reality of what it takes for an event to be a success and profitable.

There is rightly a commercial reality that drives Surf Vic.

Surf Vic is a small business with competing interests and income streams.

Success, survival and growth is based on income from memberships, sponsorships and government funding.

Sponsorships come with implied external direction and interests to create profit from the capitol invested and government funding comes with KPIs and expected levels of exposure within the commercial sector it serves and bottom line results.

Surf Vic has several commercial constrictions that effect every discussion it makes.

In real terms Surfing Vic is the Jewel in the crown of Surfing in Australia and for its size and market sector it punches above its weight by a long way.

The cash cow for Surf Vic is Short boarding it draws the most memberships, sponsorship, event revenue profit and it holds one of the Melbourne Major Events so like any other successful business it needs to keep this VIP client extremely happy.

SUP Surfing like long boarding in many ways unintentionally upsets the VIP client as it:
Forces change in a market that loves stability.
Has kook surfers that break every rule in the book craps in the back yard of the VIP Client.
Wants to compete for surf breaks and resources that until now have been the sole resource of the VIP Client.

The build it and SUP will come model will definitely work maybe too well but at what commercial cost to Surf Vic?

In short the SUP Surf model has some commercial challenges that Surf Vic has to overcome and it has to be very commercially astute in the way it implements change.

In strictly commercial terms remember they are a business, Surf Vic would have to see SUP surfing in short is a high risk, high investment, potentially low revenue return with commercial and political backlash in the VIP sector.



SUP Racing:

The key factor is SUP racing does not conflict with the VIP Client and or compete for existing resources.

SUP Racing is a potential cash cow with significant increase in revenue from sponsorship, government funding and is a new revenue stream and will gain exposure from potentially high profile events.


Where would you put your money???????????????????


The future of SUP Surfing:

If you are truly passionate and want SUP Surfing to progress then you need to take it outside the current commercial constraints and it has to become self funding and run and directed by a group of individuals that have balls and are prepared to do whatever it takes to make it a success.

I would rather see 10 guys compete at a fantastic break and put on an impressive show than 40 guys grovelling around in 1ft slop.

I believe SUP Vic did a pretty good job in this regard in 2013 / 4 however it lacked the resilience required to push to the line.

Now where exactly did I put my medication.

Stu,

What I am about to say is totally my opinion only!

If your constantly over a period of years not getting what you want in the way you want it from a provider and they are doing their best but are hamstrung from constraints they may not be able to change you have 2 options:

1) Winge bitch and carry on about whats lacking NON PRODUCTIVE.

2) Take the ball and run with it do your own thing or find another provider and fix what you believe is the problem CAN BE PRONE TO FAILURE requires resilience and resources.


SUP Vic has the skills and the ability to independently run its own SUP Surf events at appropriate locations and has proven that it can do it and in most cases pretty professionally IMO!

Sure it soaks up time effort resources etc of the members but if they are truly dedicated and passionate about SUP Surfing and want to run events at other locations times etc then suck it up and make it happen.

When I hear people bitching about this years situation what comes to my mind is you always have an option to make your own destiny.

My father always said "If you sit on the fence you get splinters in your ass"

Righto!!
Its taken two pages to finally get to the crux of the biscuit.
Firstly, the cream will always rise to the top..one foot...eight foot...class will shine through and this was certainly the case at last years titles.
However, in laymans terms we were force fed a turd sandwich. We were a laughing stock and it should never have been allowed to happen.
This year the turd sandwich is being sugar coated...but just because the method of delivery has changed doesn't mean the end product is any more palatable.
My decision and my decision only is not to surf in any more stand up paddle comps that are being run by people who don't stand up paddle and have zero empathy for those that do. Not a protest...just getting too old to put up with bul...it.
Cheers
Sparx

HumanCartoon said...

OG SUP said...
Stu,

What I am about to say is totally my opinion only!

If your constantly over a period of years not getting what you want in the way you want it from a provider and they are doing their best but are hamstrung from constraints they may not be able to change you have 2 options:

1) Winge bitch and carry on about whats lacking NON PRODUCTIVE.

2) Take the ball and run with it do your own thing or find another provider and fix what you believe is the problem CAN BE PRONE TO FAILURE requires resilience and resources.


SUP Vic has the skills and the ability to independently run its own SUP Surf events at appropriate locations and has proven that it can do it and in most cases pretty professionally IMO!

Sure it soaks up time effort resources etc of the members but if they are truly dedicated and passionate about SUP Surfing and want to run events at other locations times etc then suck it up and make it happen.

When I hear people bitching about this years situation what comes to my mind is you always have an option to make your own destiny.

My father always said "If you sit on the fence you get splinters in your ass"

I really don't want to hijack this thread but you've aired your criticism here and that warrants a response. I think you are confusing "developing local club run by well-meaning volunteers" with "peak body for the sport with funded resources". SUPVIC is the former, not the latter, and in reality surfing represents only a proportion of the club's interests. At this stage about 20% of its members surf at a competitive level and in its history the club has run a total of four "formal" surf comps. You are right in that those four events were run very well (due in no small part to your personal contribution Phill) but there is plenty of learning still to do.

That's hardly a basis for going into direct competition with Surfing Australia, which is what you are really advocating. And let's look at what's happening around the country - SUP clubs & the incipient state bodies are working with SA, not against. Personally (my opinion but I'm pretty sure it's shared), I can't see how it would be in the interests of the whole of SUPVIC's membership to pursue a maverick agenda. That's just not going to happen. Disagreeing with your personal views on that point doesn't equate to a "lack of resilience".

SUPVIC will continue to run fun and inclusive surf events for its members, alongside the club's established bay racing and social programs. As it evolves the club will make decisions about its programs and any alignments (or otherwise), with best efforts to serve the diverse interests of all of its members.


Edit: Enough about that. It's not what this thread is here for.

How many "formal" stand up paddle surf comps do you reckon Surfing Vic have run?
I can tell you the answer is four cos I've been in every one.
What percentage of Surfing Vics membership base are competitive stand up paddlers?... south of 1% I suspect!!
Having surfed in three of the Sup Vic comps I can tell you without hesitation who runs a better event and who has the best interests of the sport at heart and surprise surprise...it's not the "peak" body.
Cheers
Sparx

HumanCartoon said...

OG SUP said...
Stu,

What I am about to say is totally my opinion only!

If your constantly over a period of years not getting what you want in the way you want it from a provider and they are doing their best but are hamstrung from constraints they may not be able to change you have 2 options:

1) Winge bitch and carry on about whats lacking NON PRODUCTIVE.

2) Take the ball and run with it do your own thing or find another provider and fix what you believe is the problem CAN BE PRONE TO FAILURE requires resilience and resources.


SUP Vic has the skills and the ability to independently run its own SUP Surf events at appropriate locations and has proven that it can do it and in most cases pretty professionally IMO!

Sure it soaks up time effort resources etc of the members but if they are truly dedicated and passionate about SUP Surfing and want to run events at other locations times etc then suck it up and make it happen.

When I hear people bitching about this years situation what comes to my mind is you always have an option to make your own destiny.

My father always said "If you sit on the fence you get splinters in your ass"

I really don't want to hijack this thread but you've aired your criticism here and that warrants a response. I think you are confusing "developing local club run by well-meaning volunteers" with "peak body for the sport with funded resources". SUPVIC is the former, not the latter, and in reality surfing represents only a proportion of the club's interests. At this stage about 20% of its members surf at a competitive level and in its history the club has run a total of four "formal" surf comps. You are right in that those four events were run very well (due in no small part to your personal contribution Phill) but there is plenty of learning still to do.

That's hardly a basis for going into direct competition with Surfing Australia, which is what you are really advocating. And let's look at what's happening around the country - SUP clubs & the incipient state bodies are working with SA, not against. Personally (my opinion but I'm pretty sure it's shared), I can't see how it would be in the interests of the whole of SUPVIC's membership to pursue a maverick agenda. That's just not going to happen. Disagreeing with your personal views on that point doesn't equate to a "lack of resilience".

SUPVIC will continue to run fun and inclusive surf events for its members, alongside the club's established bay racing and social programs. As it evolves the club will make decisions about its programs and any alignments (or otherwise), with best efforts to serve the diverse interests of all of its members.


Edit: Enough about that. It's not what this thread is here for.

Stu I don't know who you have been listening too so I wanted to carefully check my facts before responding to your post.

At no stage did I ever suggest for SUP Vic to become the Peak Body or go into competition with Surf Vic.

If that had been my so called MAVERICK AGENDA I would have supported SUPA and I assure you I would have got it across the line in Victoria, I very publicly supported Surf Vic.

Surf Vic wanted Bass SUP to run the SUP Surfing State Titles on their behalf and with their support (judging, infra structure) but to a different event model and thats exactly what my Maverick Agenda was! In fact that was the concept behind starting the SUP Surf Committee.

I think if you spoke to Paul Harrington he would confirm exactly what I am saying and this concept was fully supported by the SUP Surf Members.

I dont object to you berating me in a public forum if your on the money, this time your not!

Purely my own opinion:

I would have thought if there is consensus amongst members/competitors regarding the model/format in plenty of time before the event and it ticks all the boxes in terms of being a legitimate qualifier for a national competition, then power to the membership/competitors.

I do disagree that other events like a technical race and/or distance race should be at the expense of a surf event and vice versa. If two events clash, then sometimes life is like that and we pursue the one that is more important to us.

Sometimes, however the governing body has rules set in stone as to how the event has to be run to be a legitimate qualifier for a higher level competition and whether we like it or not, in order to represent our state/country at that higher level that's what has to be done. While competitors may have a view as to where and when would be the best conditions for the contest may be, others may see it differently and logistics may get in the way (permits, insurances etc), regardless of the venue or format or timing. In more cases than not, the cream still seems to rise to the top in terms of who takes home the chocolates.

I have absolutely no doubt SUP Vic wants to deliver the best possible events for its members and equally importantly attract newcomers to the sport regardless of their previous background through these events. The new Executive and committee has a very broad base, quite a bit of experience and some very cool heads (and maybe one that isn't as cool as he needs to be - me) that have already flagged seeking advice from those outside the committee where it's beneficial - Surfing being a case in point.

When SUP Vic partners with others to run such events there will inevitably be compromise in order to make the event happen, however I'm sure SUP Vic wants to keep that compromise minimal regardless of whether it's surf, ocean racing, flatwater racing or a social fun day.

Sometimes we lose sight of the fact our multi-disciplined sport crosses into the realm of other established sports like surfing and canoeing, but doesn't fully fit into these other sports as a result. Because we're perhaps perceived as the awkward step-child in some cases, I guess some governing bodies are still trying to get their heads around how we 'fit' into their fold. In some cases in the future, the answer to that question may be that we don't fit in at all and we have to do our own thing, but the only way we find if we do 'fit' in with other sports, is to have a go.

Having competed at some very high levels of another sport over 3 decades, I understand that competitors interests and organisers interests are sometimes not aligned. The goal is to minimise that misalignment wherever possible, but it may always still be there.

Deano72 said...
Hey crew
Those that care have been kindly offered a forum to have this discussion....with the people it needs to be had with.
Airing your dirty laundry in a public forum is poor form and is not helping anybody!
Hold your breath and have your say at the Surfing Vic forum where your input has a chance of being heard.
In the meantime shut up and go for a paddle
THAT'S MY OPINION!!

Agree, and you never know, one day we may get lucky like these guys!

Just wondering whether there was information available about the marathon including distance and possible course? Cheers