husq2100 said..

PeterP said..
Nothing is stopping any of them using a board than 12'6 - so if it was that great you'd probably have seen quite a few on them already.

The only time a 12'6 (or 14'/UNL for that matter) doesn't work that well is when you get to the pitchy part of the wave coming in. Going out I'd argue the greater speed of a longer board increases your chance of clearing the next wave......if you are running into a pitching 6-8ft wave it doesn't really matter what you are on.

The race can be won or lost in those waves but majority of the BOP race takes place outside the surfzone and I'll bet that most the pro's would choose a 14' if it was allowed - noone would want to be dropped on the long flat stretches out the back and it might catch the wave marginally earlier.

IMO they should allow 14' in the Elite race and see what happens - at least then the Naish guys might get to race the long distance as well.

Do you SUP surf much PeterP? I am no racer, I do not train. I do have a 12.6, a 10.6 mal sup and a 8.4 naish. The naish the easiest to handle over the waves, the 12.6 fastest in GOOD water (not dead white water, and gets pulled around by currents more than the other 2) but the 10.6 mal gets me out the quickest as its half way between the 2….

You don't race so I repeat: If shorter was faster then the guys would be on shorter......you can nit-pick and say that if this and that wave size, period/frequency then this or that might get you out slightly quicker on average - but there is a reason none of the 100 Elite racers were on shorter than 12'6....

Far out reading all this makes me feel pretty depressed!!

What do you guys do for fun? chess?

From someone who was at this event, i liked it and think it really helped push the elite side of the sport, there were people everywhere and the place was packed kind of reminded me of going to Quicky pro at snapper!! there was beach viewing and also viewing from up the top area where more tents were set up so i thought the crowd was bigger this year than in previous years just a bit more room to spread out.

On the event the racing side was super fun and 99% of people loved it and liked the new location the only down sides for me was the very bad call on the starts and some of the calls during the racing like in the girls race where some of the top girls missed a Buoy and the bad way the event handled it.

On all the videos coming out of the carnage that happens in nearly every sport and is great to watch, yes someone could get hurt but thats just life come on guys live a little bit hey!! you all sound like old men sitting in your arm chairs whinging at the guys who just want to have some fun.

Yes some people might have struggled out there but there was good water safety and good on them for giving it a go and enjoying life! I dont care if you dont want to do it but give all the people who do a break hey.

Yes BOP is PART of the future along with flatwater paddling and DW and everything else that SUP has going for it thats the joy with it and what makes it so much fun!!

On the board size thing one thing i did notice is how much harder it looked on the 14ft board coming in through the surf so not sure many would want to race a 14ft board in a BOP race like this!! well not unless i had a few spare anyway.

If you are worried about dinging your board buy a inflatable? and just have some fun, it's not all about winning and if it was only one guy would do it. I do it for fun not to make money or prove something to someone else just get a board and enjoy it!!

Siht i came nearly last and i had a ball doing so!!

PeterP said..

husq2100 said..

PeterP said..
Nothing is stopping any of them using a board than 12'6 - so if it was that great you'd probably have seen quite a few on them already.

The only time a 12'6 (or 14'/UNL for that matter) doesn't work that well is when you get to the pitchy part of the wave coming in. Going out I'd argue the greater speed of a longer board increases your chance of clearing the next wave......if you are running into a pitching 6-8ft wave it doesn't really matter what you are on.

The race can be won or lost in those waves but majority of the BOP race takes place outside the surfzone and I'll bet that most the pro's would choose a 14' if it was allowed - noone would want to be dropped on the long flat stretches out the back and it might catch the wave marginally earlier.

IMO they should allow 14' in the Elite race and see what happens - at least then the Naish guys might get to race the long distance as well.

Do you SUP surf much PeterP? I am no racer, I do not train. I do have a 12.6, a 10.6 mal sup and a 8.4 naish. The naish the easiest to handle over the waves, the 12.6 fastest in GOOD water (not dead white water, and gets pulled around by currents more than the other 2) but the 10.6 mal gets me out the quickest as its half way between the 2….

You don't race so I repeat: If shorter was faster then the guys would be on shorter......you can nit-pick and say that if this and that wave size, period/frequency then this or that might get you out slightly quicker on average - but there is a reason none of the 100 Elite racers were on shorter than 12'6....

Just so we are clear ...I DO NOT RACE!!!! but can you explain why that automatically means my observations are not valid?

While I DO NOT RACE, all I do is SUP surf, which means surfing waves in and PADDLING BACK OUT through them. I use all my boards (yes even the 12.6) and my observations are, IMO, its not the ideal size/length for going in and out of the SURF ZONE in various conditions....

saying that if "shorter was faster, they'd be on them" is no evidence against shorter. Considering this BOP in disccusion would have the most surf effected section of any race so far, yet it still amounted to less distance than the open water. (where longer is faster)

If you go back to the previous page, we posted very similar comments all most at the same time.

As for people turning up on shorter boards, well what about the fact you have VERY limited options for a race board sub 12.6 unless custom, there are few to no races that would suit it and if you are sponsered, your company wants you on a selling board.....also, how many racers have actually made a sub 12.6 race board and tested in in surf back to back with a 12.6?

not sure why you keep bringing 14's into every arguement about racing, but I know a few SUP racing guys (pointy end) and they dont want to race 14's in surf. My comments were simply about board size for racing in surf,not best for BOP or any other race, just the surf zone.

Each lap was about 2km I think, only one part was in and out of the surf and from what I was told this was a pretty good day of surf there and is usally smaller.

Yes numbers were down but its not like no body turned up, I would say all the fourm hype about how bad the spot is was the main cause on why numbers were down. I like the location it had a bit of everything I also recon we have plenty of flatwater races and dont need to turn the BOP in to one.

BOP in Aus would be sic I was thinking D-bar would be perfect!!

paul.j said..
Far out reading all this makes me feel pretty depressed!!

What do you guys do for fun? chess?

From someone who was at this event, i liked it and think it really helped push the elite side of the sport, there were people everywhere and the place was packed kind of reminded me of going to Quicky pro at snapper!! there was beach viewing and also viewing from up the top area where more tents were set up so i thought the crowd was bigger this year than in previous years just a bit more room to spread out.

On the event the racing side was super fun and 99% of people loved it and liked the new location the only down sides for me was the very bad call on the starts and some of the calls during the racing like in the girls race where some of the top girls missed a Buoy and the bad way the event handled it.

On all the videos coming out of the carnage that happens in nearly every sport and is great to watch, yes someone could get hurt but thats just life come on guys live a little bit hey!! you all sound like old men sitting in your arm chairs whinging at the guys who just want to have some fun.

Yes some people might have struggled out there but there was good water safety and good on them for giving it a go and enjoying life! I dont care if you dont want to do it but give all the people who do a break hey.

Yes BOP is PART of the future along with flatwater paddling and DW and everything else that SUP has going for it thats the joy with it and what makes it so much fun!!

On the board size thing one thing i did notice is how much harder it looked on the 14ft board coming in through the surf so not sure many would want to race a 14ft board in a BOP race like this!! well not unless i had a few spare anyway.

If you are worried about dinging your board buy a inflatable? and just have some fun, it's not all about winning and if it was only one guy would do it. I do it for fun not to make money or prove something to someone else just get a board and enjoy it!!

Siht i came nearly last and i had a ball doing so!!

Here's the problem, Jacko - the people on this forum are SUP racing fanatics - we are the foundation upon which a spectator sport will be built. Or not. You can't really lecture to us or tell us what we should want to watch because if you don't have our hearts and minds and wallets, you don't have a sport. If the people on this forum are not attracted to the spectacle of BOP racing, (not participating but watching) then how are you ever going to turn it into a sport with mass armchair appeal attracting big multinational lifestyle sponsors?

I fear that a couple of the surf-only commentators on this thread have made a very compelling point in saying those conditions make the best in the world look like kooks - that's not good if that's the way people think. So rather than argue them down, listen to what they are saying. WE all appreciate that staying upright on a 12'6" board on waves of that size is an amazing accomplishment. But general sports fans have seen highlights from Teahupo'o and other big wave events - they won't get why this is so hard. That's the conundrum we/you are facing. It needs to be hard and challenging and dangerous (therefore sexy) but it also needs to look graceful and highly skilled and amazing. If the only appeal of Battle of the Paddle is for elite competitors because it really challenges them, and it does nothing for the growth of the sport otherwise, then the format won't have much of a future. There needs to be a fine line drawn between challenging conditions and you guys actually looking good.

As for the Kai vs Connor situation - it's clearly all Kai's fault. No just kidding, you knew I would say that. Actually, I think everyone agrees that their behaviour was unsporting, but at the same time, you have to admit, this extra spice is great for the sport. It's like what's happening in Formula 1 right now - we all appreciate that Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton are part of a team and shouldn't be driving each other off the road. But secretly, we hope it happens and we don't want to see enforced team rules to stop them from racing each other. No point wringing our hands and asking "Won't someone think of the children?" because, well, Connor and Kai ARE the children.

And then you've got the issue of safety. No-one wants to see Kai, Connor or anyone else get seriously hurt. But at the same time, if you sanitise the event, there is no appeal. Again, the analogy of Formula 1 is relevant. Jules Bianchi is fighting for his life in hospital right now and everyone is devastated by that. But if you set too many rules and conditions to make everything completely safe in Formula 1, you would remove the spectacle. Likewise BOP. It's another conundrum.

At the end of the day, I think we can all agree the biggest problem of all is why the f--- Rainbow Sandals keep being such tight arses in refusing to provide a live video feed. Forget all these other issues about inept decisions on starting times and poor communication on buoy/course changes and refusal to act on sportsmanship matters. The single biggest complaint any of us has is we didn't get to see it all. We're like the old man in the diner complaining about the terrible tasting food... and how small the portions are.

Piros said...
BOP in Aus would be sic I was thinking D-bar would be perfect!!

Not bad Jacko but I reckon come north a bit to froggies onto the rocks...Husq there has been heaps of Bop races on the Goldie.

Yeah I went in one a couple years ago. But other than club or state title's im not seeing many.

Great video Alison I laughed my head off that was BULK fun to watch GOLD. Me personally I’m not into that kind of sport but I truly like how the BOP was run in California well done sponsors, it won me over as a spectator sport, I loved it. “Got to love the carnage - “Yes Please Mr Wizard.” That clash with Kai and Connor it’s all good gets people talking about the sport both Kai and Connor are top blokes, just Like the rivalry between Slater and Irons on the WCT made them surf at their best. I spoke with a few ironman Wes Berg, Phil Clayton, Zane Holmes and a few others about what goes on under the water in the swim leg in the ironman series is brutal that the cameras can’t pick up under water for us viewer to watch "spew". I love watching the kellogg’s Nutri-Grain Ironman Series. It should be mandatory for everyone to wear a PDF2 a Gath Helmet and a short strong leg-rope and let the BOP begin. The Clubies in Australia need to take this BOP style sport by the horns then it would really take off in this country and maybe run professionally. Flat water BOP style racing would be as boring as to watch, yes good training fitness is about all it’s good for. Leave the flat water racing for those 200 metre sprints now thats entertaining to watch how good was Danny Ching doing a 200 metre sprint in 47.6 seconds hope that got him to piss in the bottle. Could be an Olympic Sport. How funny was Doctor Dangerous on the Standamaran the bloke has an IQ of like 160+ but an IQ of like -10 in the ocean. That Standamaran is the same one I paddle in Maui. Looking forward to viewing next years Californian BOP bring on the carnage.

Totally agree with jacko on that one
I was there, that's the best ever SUP race I have ever seen period.
3 Days before the race I was not convinced at all that salt creek was a good idea as I was cautious to train on the spot.
But after watching the elite race from the beach I am totally converted
The level of the paddlers is improving very quickly. Some years ago only 10 guys would have made it, now the level density of the paddlers entering the race is fantastic, everybody out there is real good. Plenty of under 20's doing unreal and there will be more and more every year.
All these young fantastic paddlers I spoke to are looking forward for events like this, it makes them dream and they can't wait to come back next year.
Everything I read on this thread come from older guys like me.
But you know what, that event made me realise that I just have to get better and go out there more often with my 12'6 when it's rough.
So let these kids show their talent when they can and if you think they look like kooks when they fall there is something seriously wrong I think.
Just tell me what are you watching on TV? real footy or touch?

It was super fun. It was easy to park if you showed up at a decent time. The hill was no big deal, even carrying my non carbon 14 up it after the race. Lunch was tasty. People were friendly and helpful.

I admit I was a bit freaked on Saturday morning but I got some great advise from Mike Baker at Riviera and had a super fun race. Same goes for the long race. Just a good time all around.

There were some big sets but it was not always like the videos show. Most people made it through with nothing more than a quick swim.

And maybe I am blind but I only saw 2 broken boards. Way more fun to make it sound out of control.

The elite races were awesome to watch. And there was some truly masterful wave riding in the open and elite races.

Hope it is at Salt Creek again next year. Learned a ton. Will be way more ready next year.

We're all entitled to our opinions and its part of the fun of the forum when we see everyone share their own views. Dont keep them to your self as it wont be as interesting and there is the odd nugget of gold in there somewhere old timer.

laceys lane said..
well, I don't want to see bop racing in lanes or anything.
i'm cautious and well suppose its got something to do with the building industry I work in.
I take risks that could take me out all day long.
I've also seen some terrible things on building sites that have come from things you wouldn't see as possible.
I see risks that aren't needed in present bop style races
I still think things could be improved. the course setups, starts, maybe vests and helmets maybe, but nothing changes.
I just don't want something 'should' have been done when its to late.
however the likes of jacko and a lot of others don't see anything needs to be done so i'll just butt out of bop debates from now on.let the sport be the rodeo clowns of the paddling world

Swell for you elites, who aren't paying for your own boards... Not so swell for: the spectators as the venue access sucks and there was no place to demo; the women got hammered mercilessly, doubt too many are super stoked; an open field that was half the size of last year; and the kids were not allowed to race at all, I guess that's not important to you 'it's all about me elites'. I'm a SoCal local and previous BOPs were all about fun for everyone. I guess pushing the limits is cool, but for most it's not at all what they are looking for. This event was always about fun for everyone until this year and one of the main reasons I got interested in paddling race boards. Growing the sport has taken a back seat to the spectacle of carnage. As ambassadors of the sport (elite SUP athletes), you need to take a hard look at embracing a venue for the BOP that's Doheny friendly and letting the majority of paddlers to have a little fun. If you want your own private party, swell, I won't be attending.

crap event , only a matter of time before there is a death , someone or multiple getting smacked on the head by loose board .

Wow!! I'm a bit surprised and shocked at all the negative opinions to this. But let's not forget that that's all they are; OPINIONS and I suppose everyone is entitled to theirs, but let's not get upset if others don't agree.
I'm no elite paddler and I've only ever done one BOP style race(Paddle to Battle MS) and I loved it!! Not as many people as the big race but still difficult conditions. Everyone that did it agreed it was tough but heaps of fun.
I have often had to negotiate a large shorey on a 14 after a DW paddle. It's exhiliarating catching a solid wave on a race board and surfing it in!!!
Some people CHOSE not to do it on the day others CHOSE to do it.
Who are we to say that their choice is right or wrong?
I think people need to lighten up and get off their soapboxes. Unless I've missed something I've only seen the largely negative comments from people who freely admit they have never and never will do such a race.

On a positive note did anyone notice how well a lot of the Aussies did! Jayden's performance was exceptional. Very unlucky

teatrea said..
Far out no one forced the competitors to compete. Ultimately the numbers will decide the venue outcome. But id say everyone who competed in those conditions would be stoked they could. As far as dangerous sports go sup is way down the list. How many parents let their kids play rugby league or aussie rules or ride motorbikes? These are far more dangerous than sup. AA yeah Jaydens performance was outstanding considering has only done a few races , if he hadn't of cramped up he would have been top four. Spoke to him yesterday and he said he just had to stop and wait for the cramps to go. I think him and Jake are going to have a great Brotherly rivalry over the next few years

G'day Teatrea yep Jayden is a weapon and a nice young kid. The reason why Jayden cramped up would just a couple off things
1. putting to much salt on his vegetables.
2. Too much fast food as young blokes eat s##t food with too much processed salt.
3. Not eating enough vegetables.

You get enough salt out of your vegetables so I would say to Jayden eat your vegetables young man for lunch and dinner. Bananas are best for breakfast. I have not used salt for like 35 years on my vegetables and I rarely eat fast food, I'd have to be desperate. The last time I had a major cramp was way back then 35 years ago. So eat all your vegetables and you will never cramp up again.