Sic v2 bullet and 2020 bullet

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6 years ago

Stand Up Paddle Foiling Board Talk & Reviews Wing Foiling

burchas

338 posts

burchas

338 posts

30 Jul 2020 11:30pm

LucBenac said..

burchas said..

I know the SIC production guy, he's sharp and on the ball, but I'm not sure what's their quality control protocol.

You probably also know the Naish production guy by now :-) Hope that he is as sharp :-)

I know a guy with some pull and I did forward him some concerns, not only about construction but also about finishing touches.
Let's just say that I don't have high hope for any major changes

LucBenac

432 posts

LucBenac

432 posts

31 Jul 2020 12:23am

burchas said..

LucBenac said..
You probably also know the Naish production guy by now :-) Hope that he is as sharp :-)

I know a guy with some pull and I did forward him some concerns, not only about construction but also about finishing touches.
Let's just say that I don't have high hope for any major changes

Well I take reinsurance that your 2020 Maliko is still alive and kicking. It would be too bad that the 2020 become my last Maliko just because of construction and lack of attention to their market, I still love the shape.

paul.j

QLD

3378 posts

paul.j

QLD, 3378 posts

31 Jul 2020 9:20am

Area10 said..

paul.j said..
Just because some brands are made in the same factory does not mean they all use the same construction. We make our ONE boards in the kinetic factory have our own constructions and as long as long as you pay the money it is exactly what you would expect. These guys are the best in the business and make amazing boards but each company determines their own construction.

Yeah, of course. But how can we explain why the guys here are reporting that their 2020 Bullets are soft and chip easily when they are (a) full PVC sandwich, and (b)the 2020 RS I have in supposedly the same construction seems solid and reasonably chip-resistant? It sounds to me more like something has gone wrong with the execution of the specified construction rather than the specification of it by the brand-?

I guess it could be a one off but only SIC will be able to give this info. I did read up above that it was soft and a bit of gravel put a hole in the board, now i know from experience that putting boards on gravel or small Sharpe rocks is never a good idea as it is super easy for a small rock to put a hole in a board.
In my shop i have fake grass and from time to time people walk stones in and i can tell you it does not matter what board i put down on the stone the same result will happen to them all!

If its a full sandwich then it should be hard over the whole board and if it has soft spots then maybe yes this could be not right.BTW I have no idea on what SIC are doing for construction. Paint chipping can happen if hit hard enough but should not chip off easy. All i know is from any boards i have ever seen the Kinetic boards but still human so even these guys could have the odd board go through thats not perfect.

Area10

1508 posts

Area10

1508 posts

31 Jul 2020 8:45am

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too, paul.j

Area10

1508 posts

Area10

1508 posts

13 Aug 2020 6:21am

Ok so an update: the red paint on my 2020 RS is so easily scratched off that paddling over kelp this week has scratched it!

I used to think that if a board was built in the Kinetic factory, that was a guarantee of light, strong, and durable construction. However the 2020 SIC range shows that this is not the case. At the end of the day, building boards is a highly skilled job, and I'm guessing that some brands more often have access to the best artisans, and/or keep a closer eye on QC on the ground at the factory. Whereas Jimmy Lewis and Infinity are brands headed up by people who can actually build boards themselves, this may not be true now that SIC Maui is owned by BIC?

SiC Maui: please sort this out for 2021: the deckpad has to be made of a material that sheds dirt, not attracts it, and is not a ridiculously impractical colour for everyday use. And the paintwork has to be reasonably resilient. If necessary, the board could be a few ounces heavier to achieve this: 1 lb difference is not going to make or break a race result, but I cant buy a 2020 Bullet because I'm not going to spend my money again on something that has to be washed and primped and fussed over every minute of the day or else it looks like it belongs in a dumpster.

burchas

338 posts

burchas

338 posts

13 Aug 2020 7:32am

Area10 said..
Ok so an update: the red paint on my 2020 RS is so easily scratched off that paddling over kelp this week has scratched it!

I used to think that if a board was built in the Kinetic factory, that was a guarantee of light, strong, and durable construction. However the 2020 SIC range shows that this is not the case. At the end of the day, building boards is a highly skilled job, and I'm guessing that some brands more often have access to the best artisans, and/or keep a closer eye on QC on the ground at the factory. Whereas Jimmy Lewis and Infinity are brands headed up by people who can actually build boards themselves, this may not be true now that SIC Maui is owned by BIC?

SiC Maui: please sort this out for 2021: the deckpad has to be made of a material that sheds dirt, not attracts it, and is not a ridiculously impractical colour for everyday use. And the paintwork has to be reasonably resilient. If necessary, the board could be a few ounces heavier to achieve this: 1 lb difference is not going to make or break a race result, but I cant buy a 2020 Bullet because I'm not going to spend my money again on something that has to be washed and primped and fussed over every minute of the day or else it looks like it belongs in a dumpster.

While certainly annoying and requiring attention, I don't see these issues as deal breakers. At the end of the day, if construction is solid (board is resilient to dings and water intake, plugs are solid and secure) I'm willing to live with cosmetic issues, especially if it makes the board lighter.

I'm more interested to learn if your 2020 RS is solidly built as far as the criteria mentioned above goes?

Area10

1508 posts

Area10

1508 posts

13 Aug 2020 9:21am

burchas said..

I'll probably never find out because I will be babying this board, and in any case, only really use it in flat (or only 1ft or so chop) with less than 20 knots, so I'm unlikely to give it a big knock.

The (hopefully) cosmetic issues might not be a deal-breaker for you, but it is for me: the bosrd is just so expensive that it needs to be right. Another irritation is that the 2020 handles are not the same as the previous years - they are less comfortable because the soft PVC deckpad-type material that used to be all around the handle is now just a strip at the top. So the central bar of the handle that you hold onto is narrower and has a hard finish so its tougher on your hands.

The 2020 is also harder to carry than the 2018/9 because the deck is more sunken which means that the lip of the standing area digs into your forearm when you are carrying it.

Also, my deck pad is not glued down smoothly all over: there are quite a few wrinkles in it that I thought would go away in time, but they haven't.

The 2020 RS is an undeniably fast board though, for racing. I find it significantly worse for downwind and surf than the previous model though. Faster in flatwater for sure, but if you mainly paddle choppy seas and downwind, I'd look somewhere else, like maybe a Naish Maliko, or Sunova Torpedo, ONE Evo 2.0 etc.

mattinsalto

11 posts

mattinsalto

11 posts

12 Nov 2020 10:01pm

Bowerboy said..
Hi,

I love my bullet even more after six months. It makes downwinding so much fun. When I had an ace I was always a bit nervous that the conditions would be beyond me. With the bullet I don't even think about that anymore. My favourite run ever was on Botany Bay when a 40 knot sustained gust hit. The bullet climbed onto an awesome drop, I trimmed the board back and slowed to sit on the run. My garmin showed 18km/hr for 250m. I just don't have the skills to do that on an ace. I have also done some nice runs on the bullet averaging about 10.8km/hr for 7km.

In light downwinding I would go for the RS. At 26 inches wide it carries the width the length of the board and so is about the same stability as the bullet. I suck paddling it in a serious downwind, but for downbreezing its wide tail makes it pick up tiny stuff easier than the bullet.

It is also faster than the bullet so I use it for training and racing. The bullet pushes water because of the rocker. Not nearly as bad as the old bullet though. In very messy stuff the RS can be a bit wobbly whereas the bullet is solid.

Overall the two boards make an awesome quiver and complement each other. For a heavier guy whose skills are not great they give lots of confidence. Finish wise the RS is super strong and hard. The bullet is very nice, coming from the same factory as Jimmy Lewis but it does scratch very easily, and is quite soft. I have punctured it twice with small bits of gravel. If it could have been made in the old factory that would have been better.

Hi,
I was going to buy a SIC Bullet, but I am a little bit worried about the construction quality reading this and another comment in this thread. I have written twice to SIC regarding this concern with no response. Now that SIC belongs to Bic or Tahe (www.taheoutdoors.com/) I have written there and I have a response from Thierry Verneuil, president of Tahe.

My email:
----------------
Hi,
I was going to buy a 2020 SIC Bullet (DF construction), but I am a little bit worried about the board quality after reading this thread at seabreeze.com.au:
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/Sic-v2-bullet-and-2020-bullet?page=2
The 11th comment in this page says:
.....
The bullet is very nice, coming from the same factory as Jimmy Lewis but it does scratch very easily, and is quite soft. I have punctured it twice with small bits of gravel. If it could have been made in the old factory that would have been better.
.....
Two comments below there is another one that says:
.....
the finish on my 2020 RS SF as well. It looked 1 year old after 2 DAYS!.
.....

Is this true or something that you have already fixed?
Thanks

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Response from Thierry:
-------------------------
Hi Martin,
We move to the new factory to improve the quality.
The construction is recognized to be without compromise.
FAKE news.

Best

Thierry Verneuil

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Would be great if you could send him some pictures or somethig proving what you are saying.
His email: [email protected]

Area10

1508 posts

Area10

1508 posts

1 Jan 2021 9:19pm

That response from Thierry Verneuil is the kind of arrogant and dismissive reply that you'd expect to get from a brand that is about to be left behind by its competitors: if he can't see user feedback as a chance to improve his product but instead only sees conspiracy, then he's in trouble.

I like the SIC brand very much, and have bought several of their boards. I have no connection to any rival brand or any other conflict of interest. Why on earth would I spend time here making observations that were "fake"?
To repeat: My 2020 RS sems to be quite stiff, unlike other reports about the Bullet here, but the paintwork is too fragile and there are some other minor construction issues that could be improved. What I'd like to hear from the brand would be "thanks for your feedback. What we intend to do to address these issues for 2021 include..." etc.

WaveScience

VIC

131 posts

WaveScience

VIC, 131 posts

2 Jan 2021 8:25pm

Anyone who responds to criticism with the response "fake news" is taking his cues from morons.

mattinsalto

11 posts

mattinsalto

11 posts

2 Jan 2021 5:56pm

Area10 said..
That response from Thierry Verneuil is the kind of arrogant and dismissive reply that you'd expect to get from a brand that is about to be left behind by its competitors: if he can't see user feedback as a chance to improve his product but instead only sees conspiracy, then he's in trouble.

I like the SIC brand very much, and have bought several of their boards. I have no connection to any rival brand or any other conflict of interest. Why on earth would I spend time here making observations that were "fake"?
To repeat: My 2020 RS sems to be quite stiff, unlike other reports about the Bullet here, but the paintwork is too fragile and there are some other minor construction issues that could be improved. What I'd like to hear from the brand would be "thanks for your feedback. What we intend to do to address these issues for 2021 include..." etc.

I totally agree with you. I was thinking it would be great if you could send him an
email with some pictures explaining the problems you are experiencing. This way maybe they will take them in account. It's true they don't deserve such a good feedback taken they doesn't take in account the first email, but finally is good for us if they do something to fix it.
In my case, I have ended buying a Starboard.

burchas

338 posts

burchas

338 posts

3 Jan 2021 2:58am

Looking at his response, ignorance comes to mind.
"Recognized to be without compromise". That's because Jimmy Lewis is known to be hands-on and making sure his board are as such. Just because you use the same factory doesn't mean your boards are inherently without compromise.

If this dude's work ethics is as compromised as his response to concerned potential customers, no wonder some compromised boards end up in consumers hands.

robon

114 posts

robon

114 posts

23 Apr 2021 12:32pm

12'6" Bullet update. I sent an email to SIC regarding the new 12'6" Bullet looking nearly identical to the previous version and this is the response and pics.

The 12'6" models look closer to the previous version but not identical.On the BULLET 12.6 there have been less drastic changes in Outline and Rocker Line, however we went with the same hull shape principles as on the Bayonet.The nose Rocker dropped slightly, which also helps with the glide when paddled in flatter conditions, while the tail shape stayed unchanged.The overall nose got more Volume to reduce pocking when catching a glide. As on the 14ft the tail outline got slightly widened all the way to the board center to provide for better stability.

The Board Volume was increased by 28L from 237L to 265L, while the most significant changes in Volume are nose thickness profile and tail width.The rails got more squared up / boxy which also increased volume and lead to more stability. The goal was to make a more stable, versatile and performing board!

Here you can see an overlay to show some of the shape differences and hope this clarifies the changes.The yellow indicates the new 2021 shape and the red and black graphic shows you the former shape.

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