Christian was on my 8 today Big difference with the bar in but found the loops too fast ? It was Epic only stayed out for an hour way to over powered it made a considerable difference with the bar fully in pre leaving the water ??????

Lars
How did you go on the weekend

...so you haven't actually given any advice just plugged a new instructional video that one has to pay for maybe? (Correct me if I'm wrong)

Several years you say, get back to me with another set of several years...

VB and Djodjo are onto it and both have flown for more than 'several years'...you've just got started mate!

Keep it simple folks...single point of energy.

Hold edge, Send, release at one single point of maximum load. It's a feel thing, just get out their and practice like the rest of us have had to do.

eppo said..
...so you haven't actually given any advice just plugged a new instructional video that one has to pay for maybe? (Correct me if I'm wrong)

Several years you say, get back to me with another set of several years...

VB and Djodjo are onto it and both have flown for more than 'several years'...you've just got started mate!

Keep it simple folks...single point of energy.

Hold edge, Send, release at one single point of maximum load. It's a feel thing, just get out their and practice like the rest of us have had to do.

Well, I was trying to say, that jumping high seems to be simple: just keep practicing and that's it. I was "keeping practicing" for 2 seasons and ...nothing. No one could help, I was ready to pay for instructions. One hour of private instructor on the water 50 USD and you also pay for "maybe". You buy a kite and pay 1 500 EUR for "may be". May be you can jump with it, may be you can't.
I'm trying to say, that it's more complecated, than it seems. You have so many possible angles between you and the board, the surface, between parts of your body. You say "hold edge, send....". There are heaps of ways to "hold edge". I'm holding the edge on the left, the guy is also holding the edge on the right. Are we holding the same "edge"?


How do our bodies work? Where do we both feel tension? Can you say it from the picture? The devil is in the detail. Little bit of bending here, a bit of pushing there.
That's ok, you have your way to do it, and you've mastered it, you FEEL it. But how do you pass it to another one? How does he know if he's doing everything right?
That's when you want to develop a "method". Well, people can try it or have couple of beers for the same cost. The profit of second case is that they don't pay for maybe, beer will definitely work)
And yeah...sorry. I haven't given any advice actually. The advice is that "keeping practicing" won't work for everyone. May be you are talented enough, you feel everything right and you're just evolving. Than it's ok. But may be someone else is not so talented, or may be his instructor at the kite school put some "bug" into his stance, the way of holding his body. And it just sits there all the time! Than "practicing" is just a waste of time, may be many years. Until he starts to work with really basic elements of the stance and dealing with power. That's what I'm trying to offer.

Antonych said..

Plummet said..
I'd like to add to Eppo's advice. Selecting the right kite for the conditions is key to boosting as high as possible.

The correct power power In my mind the point just before you start to become over powered. IE you can still hold an edge fully but have as much power on tap as practical.

Not enough power an and you wont boost high regardless of technique. Too much power and you wont be able to hold and edge when loading up to boost.


For me that point is just before I start reaching for the trim strap to reduce power.

Here's my sweet boosting zones for each of my lei kites i have to give you an idea of power required for boosting. I'm 77kg.

13m 20-24 knots
10m 22-27 knots
8m 28-35 knots
6m 35-40 knots

Sorry, guys, I'd like say a bit on this topic also) There's also a bit of problem with this advice: "find you sweet point, it's there, where you want to pull the trimmer". I had a friend with three kites, something like 9-10-11. And he was changing from trimmed 9 to full-powered 11 within the range of 10 knots may be. Crazy! Normal freeride kites. I use my 10m in 90% of wind range (normal range, from 16 to 40) and actually don't use the trimmer at all (of course staying within airstyle only, jumps-slides). Yes, it's muuch more fun with 8 or 7 at 35-40 knts, but I l mostly look for hangtime more. And...you know... we could have a bit of arguing with my friend about that sweet point!)
Sweet point depends SO much on type of kite, model year, brand, board, conditions, wind consistency. And more important - on your skills. That point is not a scale, it's just you personal result on some scale! Someone can FEEL overpowered, but in fact he is "empty"! He could not even lift off the water. I had such students. And if I would give that advice...well you know.This feeling of sweet point is very personal. Like...mm...feeling a load, when lifting a barbell from the floor. If you bend your back to form an arc, you will feel, that it's very heavy and can also damage your spine. If you hold your back straight, using your legs power, you will lift much heavier one without any problem. And you won't feel that it's killing heavy. I'm sure, you know, what I mean.

So it's not about measuring one's power with his own scale (sweet point feeling) which may often be broken (wrong), it's much more about learning how to accumulate more power and how to handle it with your body holding a proper stance and making adjustments to that stance before the jump.

Sure you wont be jumping high if your technique is wrong. But also you wont be jumping High if your kite is not powered or is over powered.
To use your wind range example. 16-40 knots on a 10m. There's no way you will jump super high on a 10m in 16 knots. No matter how good your technique is no matter how good your board is or the water conditions..... You simply wont jump high. The kite isn't powered enough Also if you are trying to hold your over powered 10m in 40 knots (which by the way I find hard to believe unless you are 100kg+) you will not jump as high as if you put up an 7 or 8m in the same conditions.

Summary:
Technique combined with correct kite (and board) selection for the conditions will give you max height.

eppo said..
2 yrs to jump. You would have struggled then to learn how to jump on the early kites then...

I will give you some credence, even after 16 seasons I'm still honing my jumping technique. Learning never stops.

But it don't over complicate it, here is only so much one can keep in their head At one time.

Single point of energy, combining your edge, sending the kite and your back foot release... Equals line load, then releasing that load.

Kite size and style, board, water and wind conditions will effect the timing and conversion of this line load into vertical height.

But that eventually becomes a feel thing, you 'feel' the maximum load point. It becomes the only thing in your head...and it's not even in your head. Let intuition work for you. Have fun.

KISS...

Hmmmmm, short, sweet and to the point, from the best in the game. The ayatollah of rocknrolla

Plummet said..
Sure you wont be jumping high if your technique is wrong. But also you wont be jumping High if your kite is not powered or is over powered.
To use your wind range example. 16-40 knots on a 10m. There's no way you will jump super high on a 10m in 16 knots. No matter how good your technique is no matter how good your board is or the water conditions..... You simply wont jump high. The kite isn't powered enough Also if you are trying to hold your over powered 10m in 40 knots (which by the way I find hard to believe unless you are 100kg+) you will not jump as high as if you put up an 7 or 8m in the same conditions.

Summary:
Technique combined with correct kite (and board) selection for the conditions will give you max height.

You're absolutely right. No way to jump high with 10m in 16 knts. Yes, it's most fun to have 10m when it's blowing about 25 or so. It's well powered and still controlled with ease. But I was not talking about going high in 16 knots. Sorry, man, maybe I was not clear enough.
I was trying to say that feeling of being "well powered" is different for every single rider. And may be a beginner should not choose the moment for the jump basing on that feeling. Yes, he will jump, but if he keeps using the same "sweet point", he won't be moving higher, may be for years. Though it's much more important to learn, how to hold more power with his stance. To bring that sweet point to higher power zone on the scale. And that's my approach, when I learn my students to jump. I had some real good results with people, using my method, so I've decided to share it with those who's also struggling with getting higher.

About holding 10m in 38-40 knts, yes it's true. I'm 75 kg. Well, I'm talking about tropical wind, which is less consistent, may be somewhere in the North Sea it feels harder, but is still possible I'm sure. At least with a modern freeride kite like Rebel or Rally. If we ever meet on the spot, I'll show you) I have couple of friends, living in Australia, may be I'll visit him someday.
When you ride with 10m in 38 knts you don't have much fun. Your lines are tensioned so hard, that a well pumped up kite collapses, like you barely inflated it. When you send it to 12 it won't go, like it's floating in some kind of jelly, it is so overblown. You can't go upwind (on the shore, with your legs) or even stand - you've been lifted up. You can only ride.
I have some footage on that topic, but no one is standing with the meter, so you don't see the actual wind speed and may say, I'm a liar) But if you are serious, you can ask anyone in my facebook feed www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002142187754 and have lots of evidence from guys from different countries. Usually they have a lot of fun watching me and would joke at me like hell on a high wind day. Just like a lot of guys will do here in this thread.
Again, I'm not saying that it's "fun" or "good" or "everyone should do it". "Techniques + correct kite" - absolutely. Riding in 40 knts with a big kite is just a "side effect" of understanding how to deal with power. Having control over your "sweet point". Starting with real basics, which you don't even think about, when you usually want to jump.

This topic is funny as ****. Good advice mixed with advise describing very poor technique for big air. And then as a grand final the confused Russian dude who does not want to "kiss" any blokes

Some diversion of topic, have any of you big boosters out there tried a 9m Chrono in 25-30knots. I'm saying it'll add 3m to your height straight up.

Antonych said..

eppo said..
...so you haven't actually given any advice just plugged a new instructional video that one has to pay for maybe? (Correct me if I'm wrong)

Several years you say, get back to me with another set of several years...

VB and Djodjo are onto it and both have flown for more than 'several years'...you've just got started mate!

Keep it simple folks...single point of energy.

Hold edge, Send, release at one single point of maximum load. It's a feel thing, just get out their and practice like the rest of us have had to do.

Well, I was trying to say, that jumping high seems to be simple: just keep practicing and that's it. I was "keeping practicing" for 2 seasons and ...nothing. No one could help, I was ready to pay for instructions. One hour of private instructor on the water 50 USD and you also pay for "maybe". You buy a kite and pay 1 500 EUR for "may be". May be you can jump with it, may be you can't.
I'm trying to say, that it's more complecated, than it seems. You have so many possible angles between you and the board, the surface, between parts of your body. You say "hold edge, send....". There are heaps of ways to "hold edge". I'm holding the edge on the left, the guy is also holding the edge on the right. Are we holding the same "edge"?


How do our bodies work? Where do we both feel tension? Can you say it from the picture? The devil is in the detail. Little bit of bending here, a bit of pushing there.
That's ok, you have your way to do it, and you've mastered it, you FEEL it. But how do you pass it to another one? How does he know if he's doing everything right?
That's when you want to develop a "method". Well, people can try it or have couple of beers for the same cost. The profit of second case is that they don't pay for maybe, beer will definitely work)
And yeah...sorry. I haven't given any advice actually. The advice is that "keeping practicing" won't work for everyone. May be you are talented enough, you feel everything right and you're just evolving. Than it's ok. But may be someone else is not so talented, or may be his instructor at the kite school put some "bug" into his stance, the way of holding his body. And it just sits there all the time! Than "practicing" is just a waste of time, may be many years. Until he starts to work with really basic elements of the stance and dealing with power. That's what I'm trying to offer.

that second photos in thalawila at kappalady

MrFreeze said..

eppo said...
Agreed woott, topped off with a visit from freeze. Classic.

Hmmmmm, listen to the grand mufti. These young blokes want to drive a F1 car on their L plates. Time in the game fellas!!!!

Lol...