Ryan74 said..
Look man, I can't disagree that security should always be the priority and I'm really sorry to hear that. But it does not change the fact that the above statements are inaccurate and that there are much better ways to deal with this. Just go and provide your feedback to them! Who knows, you might learn something in the process ...

Hey Ryan you may learn something if you believe me.

I ended up in hospital because of them

Onshore or south western doesn't matter. Can't go by predicted forecasts. The graphs done lie and schools should not be teaching in those conditions. Especially so close to shore. Melville is gusty even in a true seabreeze. Those that know me know I am not a competitor nor want to open a school there. I am a local that has had run in with these blowin instructors who don't want to listen . I know the ins and outs of how licences work as I was have done my research. All I am doing is looking out for the general public who don't know better. This school should know better than to teach in these conditions.

joedarra said..
Guys, I agree we should keep a spot safe from hazards, and that can easily be fixed by talking to someone from the school. Melville is a great spot and it would be pity if the council decided to close it.

have you tried talking to these guys ?

Subculture said...

eppo said..
Bringing up sprod is fcking poor form. He was a good experienced Kiter who made his own decision has got nothing to do with a ****ty kite school operating in stupid conditions.

Couldn't agree more eppo. Well said. That whole post by dbabicwa was devoid of logic.

dusta - Excellent thread, well overdue. That 'school' has been operating irresponsibly for too long.

dave.... Excellent post too. Every point, spot on. What a pity that the majority of beginners will not read it before trying to choose a school; therefore 'flying blind'..

cauncy - Regarding giving them a warning, if you'd been in the metro area for the last few years, you'd know the 'school' in concern has been witnessed using unsafe practice and operating in a fashion that seriously threatens access on the river - for far too long. They are way past any warning. They ignore anything that is said to them in that regard. As dusta and others have said, approaching them to 'warn' them of what they are doing has no effect. Their usual response is quoted above by others. They are arrogant in the extreme and show complete lack of respect for a privilege granted to operate in the area by Melville Council. Looking at information available to the public, the permission granted appears to have been given under misinformed circumstances also.

Thankfully not a metro Hetro
Looks a pretty crap spot as in proximity of hazards imho, also it's fair to say locals would prefer their local spot to themselves and free of distractions, I'd say some of that is fuel, as it'd give me the shifts, no excuses though to be teaching in dangerousness conditions, but it'd be hard to know when a gust or surge of wind mid lessons, imho those with a real concern would be best approaching the business proprietor and air your concerns, if they continue then it's time for authorities to air their concerns, if they ignore that , then they'll possibly lose their permits to teach at said venue

Dear Ryan, your kite school is going down. You can't stop it now, this is happening. Dusta, no point wasting your time talking to muppets that work at the Melville council re this, you need to speak to Councillors themselves and make a submission to speak at the next council meeting. These meetings are attended by the Mayor and Councillors, it is where the real action happens. Anything else is a waste of time mate....

joedarra said..
Hi Dusta,

I havent, and i will pay attention next time i see them,,, but im only concern about the fact that melville is the ONLY spot where a student can learn safely, with no waves and relatively shallow water....... Is not about closing one school, is about the council will end up making a desition regarless of the company operating there! And will close the spot, affecting everyone else. As you said, safety goes first, but as a fellow kitesurfer I believe you should give them a chance to amend any issues with their operating standars!!

they should have amended their operating standards after teaching in early morning gusty easterlies when a student of their very nearly had a crippling accident

Please not this is not a one off occurence . . . It has been posted b4 by me the above mentioned teaching in 30 + onshore. . . . Where the poor learner was dropong his kite on the shoreline in a direct westerly. . . . So is this a one off mistake but soul I don't think so. . . . . Are they doing the sport and melville any favours I think not. . .
This is not a one off and nothing seems to change

does not look good

so have you asked soul kite who the instructor was? and who the student was?

as for my OPINION on if that photo looks like 40 knots or not. well as i said i was not theyre so ill take your word for it but here is a pretty well known guide as to what wind strengths look like aka the beaufort scale www.bom.gov.au/lam/glossary/beaufort.shtml

8Gale63 - 75 km/h34-40 knotsTwigs break off trees; progress generally impeded.Moderately high waves of greater length; edges of crests begin to break into spindrift; foam is blown in well-marked streaks along the direction of the wind.


more pictures will always help

cauncy said..

GMkal said...
Hi All

If people have concerns about a kiteboarding school we appreciate being notified of them directly to [email protected]

We have a complaints procedure we follow in relation to kiteboarding schools and will act upon verifiable and formal complaints.

We are now accrediting schools and will withhold and/or suspend or refuse accreditation and support with local government where appropriate.

Cheers

Alexandra | General Manager
Kiteboarding Australia Limited

So have iko granted you authority to do this or do you bypass them and have permits withdrawn by shires/ local authorities
Surely they'd get a warning 1st and if they didn't improve practices then they'd have their accreditation or permit withdrawn

Hi Cauncy

We are not associated with IKO (a commercial company) but have now created and rolled out an Australian training system. As the not-for-profit peak governing body for the sport in Australia, we have a responsibility to grow the sport of kiting and part of that is providing professional training and lessons to those wanting to get involved.

Schools get their permits directly from councils/shires/local authorities and this is a requirement of being an accredited KA School. We may choose to sanction an accredited school on the basis of a verifiable complaint that the school is not complying with the requirements of a KA School. The first step is of course by warning them. The second step is removing accreditation and informing the council.

In addition, in some areas we have an agreement in place that sets out what "reasonable teaching conditions" are for that location, we can act on that basis to determine if we sanction the school.

I hope that answers your question.

Alexandra

dusta said..
here is another incident involving this school in gusty conditions

www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/woman-suffers-suspected-spinal-injuries-in-swan-river-kite-surfing-accident-ng-c137ddea336821cebdf1af76c81b6c10

and the wind reading from that day





see a pattern here ???

Funny that you are mentioning this one as you were obviously not there at the time of the incident....

I was there and thought the guy in charge reacted fairly well to the situation. They called the paramedics straight away although the student involved claimed she was fine. The title of the article from PN was obviously overly exaggerated.

Personally, I used to work as an instructor for a well established and respected kite school in WA and even though all precautions where taken, we also had an incident where the student ended up with a broken collarbone. Just like soul kite did, after securing the student we called an ambulance straight away as it was the best we could do.

Unfortunately **** happen, sometimes it takes only one gust (I think that's what happened to Johnno last year) regardless of your experience.

If I remember well, back before Soul kite got their permit from the city of Melville, we used to see heaps of mate teaching mate or gumtree lessons happening at Applecross or Point Walter. I think it is way better for the community to have schools like Soul kite which are registered businesses carrying insurances and have work cover for their employees. They also seem to use the latest equipment and I am yet to see one without protective gear.

I had an altercation with one of their instructors last year, the owner of the school stepped in, calmly asked what was going on and sorted it out. After my session the instructor in question came to apologise. It is hard to believe that you approached them and received agressive response in return unless you carried on like a pork chopped.... Approaching someone yelling at him never achieve anything trust me.

dusta said..

They are all blowin euro instructors .

lets also look at the fact no other reputable school was out teaching in those conditions and most sailing events were cancelled for the day .

Well, maybe it's about time that Australia put in place a proper structure around Kitesurfing. I was once one of them and the only courses available in Australia were IKO and BKSA. 1 week training @ $1000, the ability to ride, turn and jump both side and I was set for a job on the beach paying $50/hour.

Most countries in Europe require to undergo a full on training for 5 to 10 months before you can start teaching it so I don't think there is anything wrong with what you call "blowin euro instructors". If it wasn't for them, most operators wouldn't have any instructors and we would end up with the mate teaching mate scenario again.

I have been away from the industry for quite a while now but maybe KA will be in charge or structuring this now...



Anyway, from what I read you seem to have a particular interest at shutting them down rather than giving them feedback to improve the situation and this is not likely to help anyone.

On a side note, I was on the ocean side that particular day for most of the day and I didn't find it to be dangerous at all. At 65kg I was riding a 7 and was far from being over powered. It was also side on, not onshore as presented before.

@oldjenkins and marno - No, I'm not affiliated to the school. I just happen to know them like many people in the kite community... thanks for asking so politely.

@dusta -
1. not sure what you are trying to prove with these graphs. Yes there is a pattern: the wind on the river is ALWAYS gusty! The average wind is barely exceeding 20 knots. Again, what would you qualify as suitable conditions for teaching on the river knowing that a beginner would at least need 15 knots as a very minimum to practice the water start? What is YOUR solution? Should we close all schools on the river?? And let instructors with no permit, adequate gear or qualification take over? Huh?

2. you cant blame a school just because there has been an accident. The risk will NEVER be 0. What IS important is whether there has been negligence (no protective gear, not suitable conditions, etc) and whether the school has properly responded to the incident. As stated above, it seems that the situation was handled pretty well.

3. Don't waste your time speaking to the instructors. Go and speak with the owner. It's good to have people like you trying to improve the overall security on the spots and you might help the schools to improve but please choose the way you approach this wisely and with common sense.

Lastly, your comment "They are all blowin euro instructors ." clearly indicates where the problem really is...

Ryan74 said...
Lastly, your comment "They are all blowin euro instructors ." clearly indicates where the problem really is...

Some of the best recognised instructors in our state are euros & other nationalities
Bell end

Ryan74 said..
Oh, by the way, I was also riding on that day and sorry to contradict you Dusta but other reputable schools were operating on that day (although it was on the ocean). The conditions were not different from any other normal summer days except that it was freezing. I had an excellent session, the best one of the season so far.

WHat time were you out riding ryan ?

9:30am at melville ?


and livit big difference to a seasoned kiter such as yourself and a learner who doesn't know how to handle themselves in strong winds .


and the blowin euro comment is exactly that , big difference to the euro's and other nationalities who are residents and stay here more than a summer .

With regards to all of the above and differing opinions, it would be great to know exactly what Soul Kite's response is to this topic. I have no doubt that they are aware of this thread and would have their own views.

We all f#ck up from time to time and likewise enjoy celebrating success. No one is immune from this process and naturally it is a humanistic characteristic.


Do I deserve an answer from them...well no of course not. But they have a business to operate and an income to generate. Bad press is no good for any business so in a sense a response from Soul Kite will/will not prevent me from recommending them in future.

Time to put this bear to rest.