One thing that surprises me is that there are schools that teach with the kite in the "correct" suicide mode. I would have thought that is just a law suit waiting to happen. In my opinion newbie should be taught the safes possible way and then as they advance they can then make their own decisions as to what works best for them.

I have never had an issue, doesn't mean to say it cant happen.

Kite just sits on the surface.

How would you correctly rig up a 4 line C kite??

I'm not saying it's correct or incorrect, I'm saying if you pull 10cm of one front line, it will steer your kite in one direction, you probably have no consequence of this since when you drop the bar, you probably drop the kite in the water as well and by the time you rehook the line tension is even again. The downside of this is you might have un-even front lines over time, but that's a common issue with single front line safety in general.

Hi Wishy & Christian, here is the set up I am using. Safety leash above chicken loop and only on front lines.
Should be safe - I assume?

Thanks for feedback

Yep AGoodVintage, super old school, almost 10 years old setup. Super unsafe as Puetz said and exactly the opposite of what you're thinking.

Your only chance to make it safe is to modify the safety system and add a safety line to one of your front lines. Something easy to do for someone with lots of experience, knowledge and the right spare parts...but I don't recommend you try if you don't know what you're doing.

With that setup you're asking for trouble really, get a newer kite and bar :) Could be worth getting a 1h lesson on safety systems and self-rescue as I assume you've never flagged a kite before

Christian

cbulota said..

Yep that's correct. People who unhook regularly understand that having to ditch the kite completely is more likely to happen and all the wakestylers I know have ditched their kites MANY times...I know cause I rescued their kites many times If you're ready and trained to ditch your kite quickly and you don't have the leash attached to the back of your harness, it's as safe as it's going to get to wakestylers.

i'm totally in favour of safety and taking lessons around safety... so no argument there at all. But on a separare note (although still connected to this topic) I would be curious though, what would be typical circumstances where wakestylers would have to ditch the kite completely... i've tumbled over many times and fallen backwards and dropped the bar, and the kite always comes down and sits steadily at the edge of the window - slightly pulling downwind (depending on the wind conditions of course). I suspect if you were maybe in deep water, being stuck dragged backwards without ability to twist around might qualify for a full release... but if you are in a shallow flat water spot, i don't think you'd ever need to fully release, as the kite, once you let go of the bar, hits the water and is very steady and controllable... but then again that could depend on a kite perhaps...

another thing, i'm curious if you don't have the leash attached to the back, how do you do handle passes, or even unwrap the leash after a trick...?

As usual Thanks Cbulota - g8 -- really G8 topic..

READ THIS IF ANY OF THE ABOVE COMMENTS LEAVE YOU FEELING A LITTLE UNSURE..
There are a few assumptions made.. There is a bit of history in the design of equipment.... You buy equipment a PRO can use in top level competition... There are features which are universal but not required for .. most of us...

1) What is suicide for? - YOU DO TRICKS -- YOU UNHOOK NO OTHER REASON... if you unhook you do a handle pass or other trick you loose the bar or need to drop it and can recover the bar / kite mostly by reaching out and pulling the leash grab the bar and re-engage the Chicken loop - you are aware of why U do it -- often you have the bar back and hooking up while you still riding your board + you do not want the hassle of having to sort out a fully flagged kite which has one line(possibly 2) of 4/5 tight and the others not - and the bar is meters away.
2). You do not un hook - you have no need to link up suicide. NO NEED TO LINK UP SUICIDE - IT IS NOT SMART. IT IS SUICUIDE = RISKY especially for inexperienced kiters = STUPID....
3) My first kite - a Naish ...Aero II (approx 2002/3) had a safety (that's why I bought it it had a safety system) which attached above the bar to a single line and essentially flagged the kite as today's do. The difference is any loops had to be un-done totally. As did any body spin the harnesses did not have the defacto loop around the back attachment point for leashes (if you had on!!) for handle passes. It was the (good) design of the day. Now every line attached to the front of the kite (should) goes through the bar.
4). A leash attached to the main front lines above the chicken loop is not a flagging line or a safety system it is of no more value than fully barring out your kite. If I had that with no separate flagging line - I would attach the leash / safety to the O**** (or what ever it is meant to be called in polite circles!!) velcro loop on 1 of the outer bar lines - these are the out side lines = go to the back of the kite.. that at least will keep one line tight and allow the rest to be loose.. not ideal but way better than just de-powering (This is OLD school - I hope there are few kites out there with this as the only option - but IT WILL WORK - IT WILL FLAG YOUR KITE)..

Most kiters (thankfully) will skip over these comments - if you have a leash which does not attach to a single line (not a plastic coated line which is linked to the both front lines of the kite below the bar) which can effectively make your kite act like a bed sheet flapping in the wind - review.
After that - practice flagging quickly.
Setting up for suicide should be a deliberate choice not a default habit...

For those who do not know - harnesses started getting the loop around the back to allow for tricks that is the only purpose of attaching your leash to this point - you unhook and do handle passes (or plan to) if you do not then attach the leash to your harness on your preferred side near the front of your harness (some where fixed not part of the hook / strap structure)
Thanks Cbulota..

Cheers
AP

Somewhere further up was a comment about Cabrinha safety, personally I've had the 2003 Cab CO2, 2004 Cab Nitro, 2010 Switchblade and now the 2017 Switchblade. Never had a problem flagging my kite when using the correct bar with the correct kite. Back in the '03/04 years Cabrinha flagged off a side line (above the bar but it ran through a ring and the whole bar, including the other 3 lines shot up the only line left under tension) this usually caused the kite to loop but with no power because it was simply rotating around a single steering line with no tension on the other 3 lines. 1st stage release back then ALWAYS resulted in 40+ minutes of untangling lines on the beach and there was no recovery while in the water unless you were riding suicide. The pain of swim back and untangling lines taught us to "hang on at all cost" which at the time seamed reasonable however the advances made since then have changed things. Point of the story is that any kite that I've flown since 2003 that did not flag when 1st safety was released had the safety incorrectly connected, either on purpose or due to poor advice/instruction.

On a side note: The first instinct any new kite boarder should be taught is "LET GO THE BAR" which drops most of the power from just about any Kite released in the last 8 years. Stage 2 is chicken loop release and stage 3 is safety release which should be able to be released on your harness and disconnects kite completely.

cbulota said..

cauncy said.
Don't understand
your secondary releases the kite anyway,
same thing , from some of the fatalities I know of they'd of been better without leashes

I'm with dafish on this one Cauncy, in most cases you can solve problems using the primary release system, preventing you from losing the kite and causing trouble to others with your runaway gear!

Most of us kite in busy areas and having the ability to flag out your kite on the beach without losing it is essential. I've seen a runaway kite in Safety bay a few years ago which ended up in the power line and cost many thousand of $ of damage, plus cutting the power from the whole neighborhood for hours...I actually found a pic I took from this back then:



Having a primary quick release that works well is critical in scenarios like those. Your logic only really applies if you're kiting solo with no one around, no obstacles whatsoever for a long distance...

Christian

This may of happened with or without secondary, I prefer this without a body hanging off it,

Gateman said..

AGoodVintage said..
Hi Wishy & Christian, here is the set up I am using. Safety leash above chicken loop and only on front lines.
Should be safe - I assume?

Thanks for feedback

Hey Vintage, that pic above disturbs me if you think it's "safety", will not depower your kite any more than simply releasing the bar.

Agreed, this is the same bar my newbie mate bought - it was returned immediately.