www.facebook.com/share/v/1CNmFaQUmX/?mibextid=wwXIfr
he is major issue.

What? Moses went out and said Commandment 11 is "Thou must develop sailing and go out thereby to carry thine pestilence to other lands"?
In case you missed history classes, it was the Moslem, Hindu and Confucian parts of the world that were more economically and scientifically developed than Europe until sometime in the 16 or 1700s

cammd said..
You haven't noticed Western Culture, it stems directly from the Judea christian tradition. It has produced the best living standards and human rights in the history of the world. Pretty good stuff I think but easy to miss I guess.

Have you visited anywhere in China in the last 5 years? Obviously not. I f you had, you would have seen 'with your own eyes' that they are maybe 50 years ahead of us. It would blow your tiny mind.

I know you are stupid and can tell you never made it past high school. I'm not saying that you need a university degree to be worldly, but you come across as dumb as a bag of hammers.

I'm willing to put $50 that the only book you ever read was Storm Boy as part of the school curriculum, and you didn't even read that, you watched the movie.

C'mon Cammd, get triggered and get banned

myscreenname said..

cammd said..
You haven't noticed Western Culture, it stems directly from the Judea christian tradition. It has produced the best living standards and human rights in the history of the world. Pretty good stuff I think but easy to miss I guess.

Have you visited anywhere in China in the last 5 years? Obviously not. I f you had, you would have seen 'with your own eyes' that they are maybe 50 years ahead of us. It would blow your tiny mind.

eh ? So you reckon anywhere in China is 50 years ahead of Australia in living standards and human rights ?

Can you expand on this a little ?

Carantoc said..
eh ? So you reckon anywhere in China is 50 years ahead of Australia in living standards and human rights ?

Can you expand on this a little ?

This year I'll be heading to China's biggest city Chongqing. Most people haven't even heard of this city, but it has 10m more people than Beijing.



Human rights/Living standards.... Well, all I really know about that is when I visited late last year, I saw no beggers, or homeless, Shanghai was spotless , full of manicured gardens maybe 70% electric cars, there were drone shows at night, for the public, the food, transport and accommodation was very inexpensive and good. I also felt totally safe, which I rate. It was like landing on Mars. There were lots of people... lots of people, everywhere.

Australia looks old, grubby and poor, compared to what I saw there. America looks like a third world country in comparison.

When were you last there? And how would you compare the living standards or human rights there to ... um... somewhere like the Israeli occupied state of Palestine for example?

cammd said..

Couldnt see the sky for air pollution, traffic was crazy

I like visiting big Asian Cities, and not even Tokyo compared to Shanghai, I reckon it was 10 years ahead of Seoul and Tokyo.

I also travelled to Jingdezhen on a bullet train, I have an acquaintance who is successfuly selling pottery glazes to the Chinese and the rest of the world from there. He has a factory in Nanning and some showrooms in Jingdezhen. I visited some industrial areas, where they fire pottery on a huge scale and can tell you that OH&S is a thing now.

Homosexuality has been decriminalized. Gay marriage is not recognized, transgender individuals face stringent, medicalized criteria for legal gender changes and I don't think they know what a pronoun is. So yes - the Chinese are not as 'woke' as us.

Air polution is always something I haven't liked about the big Asian cities, especially with the high humidity.

I don't know if it was the time of year but the air was very clean in Shanghai in November. 70% of cars there were electric - they have green number plates. 15 years, since you've been there. I'm sure a lot has changed, the Chinese are advancing their society at an 'eye watering' rate.

It's no wonder Trump wants to make America great again, they are well behind China from what I saw with 'my own eyes'.

Enormous divide between the haves and have nots! Huge highly visible drug, homeless and mental health problems in most cities. Very dirty. Many people barely scraping by. Yet the swamp has double the number of billionaires of China.
.

D3 said..

cammd said..

kersh said..

UncleBob said..

kersh said.

I didn't know that this was considered conservative. But I can't see the point of religion. From my observations over the years, nothing good has come from it.

You haven't noticed Western Culture, it stems directly from the Judea christian tradition. It has produced the best living standards and human rights in the history of the world. Pretty good stuff I think but easy to miss I guess.

You can believe that, some of us might believe that the human rights and standards you point to have come about despite your Judea Christian traditions.

Doesnt surprise me, some of you believe men can get pregnant too.

Carantoc said..

No idea why human rights (as our understanding of them are) are more progressive if you have an army of Kung-Fu robots.

Or why having to live in a giant city of 10M+ people that requires 20 lanes highways with 15 exits puts people's living standards over those of anyone else.

I guess it depends on what you look for when assessing your own requirements for living standard and human rights.

Here's a question for you.

Do you think the National Socialist Network sh would be allowed to form a political party in China ?

This is directly related to the topic at hand.

Hey, I'm no human rights/political expert, like either yourself or Cammd.

I just visited China as a naive Westerner with no understanding of their language. I just made some observations using my 'own eyes' and only relayed whats commonly referred to as 'Empirical Evidence'.

The Chinese are doing pretty good from what I saw. Generally, the people seem better off in Shanghai than people in all cities I've been to in the U.S. I left thinking that China was 50 years ahead of Australia.

If you type into Google 'human rights abuses in China' and then 'human rights abuses in Australia' you might get a better answer than I could give you.

I agree, the Chinese aren't as 'woke' as those from a Judeo-Christian background.

Cammd saying people from a Judeo-Christian background are superior is a very naive, racist and un-worldly opinion, in my opinion.

Every country has evolved. Some better than others. In the past 50 years I would argue that China has evolved way faster - lifting 1 billion people into modernity - than any country from a Judeo-Christian background.

It's easy to see why America harks back to the past with slogans like 'make America great again', and now have a president who is seeking to roll back democracy, human rights and wokeness. America, is still the leading superpower, but for how much longer?

They are certainly not commanding and promoting the same influence on other nations as they once so successfuly did. They appear to be doing the opposite, by becoming a far more insular society.

myscreenname said..
Cammd saying people from a Judeo-Christian background are superior is a very naive, racist and un-worldly opinion, in my opinion.

I didn't take cammd's point to be that. If it was then I'd agree with ya.

I thought the point was : A claim religion has done nothing good and the response : It has helped create western civilisation, and western living standards and human rights compliance is good. Hence at least some religion has done some good.

I am sure you could have probably used perhaps the Buddhism practices of giving out free food to the needy as a better example, but it was still an example of something good religion has delivered humanity.


In the additional off-topic discussion in regards to China in the last 50 years, yep, no doubt one of the largest changes a human society has ever experienced (as indeed Carantoc initially pointed out).

The western world did similar, but over a period of 200 or 300 years. So you could ask why did China have to play sudden catch-up in the last 50 years ? What held China back in those previous times ? Introspective Imperialism and then Socialism with it's required atheism (atheism to ensure only the one socialist governing body had any form of societal control) ? Something else ? Too nuanced to describe ?

And is it arguable the last 50 years of progress were a requirement to ensure 1.5 billion people didn't rebel against the CCP ? Are both the method and destination of that progress not modelled on western style market-based capitalism with a social safety net ? Is this market-based capitalism with social safety-net being an original product, at least in part, by the Judeo-Christian heritage of western values ?

As mentioned above, I am not convinced that level of progress could have been achieved in 50 years by 1 billion people via a western style democratic government. It probably could have been done to a greater or lesser extent over a period of 300 years. But much like Carl Marx theorized you couldn't go from capitalism to communism without travelling through socialism, Carantoc is theorising you can't take 1 billion people from agrarian feudal to industrialised democracy in 50 years without going through dictator based socialism. That does not necessarily make either Carantoc or Marx fans of mandated-atheistic Socialism or Carantoc beLIEve that those unique 50 years in one unique society prove religion provided nothing good in previous 2,000 years of just about every other high living standard, human right accepting society.

Carantoc said..

USA - first super-power in history that doesn't seek territory based imperialism. USA can't win a war because occupying the land, installing your government over the people and taking the wealth of the defeated isn't accepted by the woke American public (or the woke American public institutions if not the actual public).

I might be missing something or maybe you don't know about the recent threats U.S.A. have made to Greenland. The rehtoric by Trump sounds like he's seeking 'territory based imperialism' to me.

Well, yes to be a pedant perhaps it would have been more accurate to say 'territory based colonial conquest'.

and yes OK, the USA since 1776 has gained significant amount of territory. But most has been by purchase, agreement or treaty and not by more traditional empire building conquest. In fact I'd think the majority of territory gained has been by purchase or agreement from other colonial powers, not by conquest of the native population.

Not sure one rant from Trump defines 250 years of USA foreign history, and as Mark_Oz says the US public and public institutions have very broadly condemned the idea, and we will have to wait and see what happens, so far nothing.

Having a think now - the current USA territory won by USA direct conquest of the native population:
1) Original 13 colonies that declared independence (starting point so doesn't count anyway)
2) Hawaii late 1800s, although wasn't this more of a civil uprising, although perhaps an uprising by USA immigrants against the native rulers so not USA military conquest directly but maybe add it to the list because maybe it was politically supported by US government
3) Alaska, Texas, Florida all purchased or gained from other colonial powers
4) The vast number of US military bases around the world. Count these ? Not many taken and retained by conquest and arguably many were retained after WW2, after the rest of the country or territory was returned to the native population following Allied victory. So maybe if you add these, you have to also subtract the fact the rest of the country was handed back.
5) umm, any others ? Maybe Guam and pacific islands, maybe Puerto Rico ? not sure history of those.

So I get a grand total of maximum of about 1 ? Put that up against any other super-power / colonial power since the rise of the Egyptian Pharaohs and it seems statistically equivalent to zero.

myscreenname said..
I might be missing something or maybe you don't know about the recent threats U.S.A. have made to Greenland. The rehtoric by Trump sounds like he's seeking 'territory based imperialism' to me.

Didn't Trump offer to purchase it?

Greenland has a population of what ? 40,000 people or something and a military of exactly zero personnel.

If the USA wanted to take Greenland by miliary force it would be over in 4 seconds. By the time Denmark worked out what was happening and pedaled home from the Lego factory to grab their water-pistols it would be over.

I don't think it is a fear of military failure that is holding Trump's regime back. More like political considerations of the USA public and public institutions. More likely the US military would say 'no we won't because it isn't politically acceptable' than say 'no we can't'.

Best just hope the Chinese and Russian military (and the Martians when they get here) will always say the same thing. Although I doubt that very much.

Carantoc said..
Didn't Trump offer to purchase it?

Who knows what he's on about?

Denmark are an ally. Or they were. No real need for any argy-bargy and bullying.

He's all over the shop. Do you really believe Trump has any hope of making 'America great again'?

From what I can gather Americans, and just about everyone else are getting increasingly worried about this unpopular war in Iran. I hope it's over soon and Australia avoids getting dragged into it.

cammd said..

D3 said..

cammd said..

kersh said..

UncleBob said..

kersh said.

I didn't know that this was considered conservative. But I can't see the point of religion. From my observations over the years, nothing good has come from it.

You haven't noticed Western Culture, it stems directly from the Judea christian tradition. It has produced the best living standards and human rights in the history of the world. Pretty good stuff I think but easy to miss I guess.

You can believe that, some of us might believe that the human rights and standards you point to have come about despite your Judea Christian traditions.

Doesnt surprise me, some of you believe men can get pregnant too.

And look at you being unable to deal with the concept that people who aren't like you should be allowed to exist.