FormulaNova said..

Completely off topic Cisco, but how's the rust going in the falcon Fairmont? It isn't. I care for my vehicles.

During that era most Fairmonts and Fairlanes were built at the Brisbane factory because the quality of the workmanship was superior to that at plants in other states.

In NSW I think the annual inspections make keeping older cars a bit more difficult, because sometimes parts are hard to get. On a trip to Victoria recently I was surprised to see a lot older cars around, and I couldn't help but think its the lack of rego inspections.

Annual inspections for road worthiness of ALL vehicles on Australian roads in ALL states I believe is long overdue. There are backpackers taking advantage of the different state laws and on selling vehicles two, three and four times over that were not road worthy at the start. None of them will spend a lousy $120 to have 3rd party property insurance so when they bang another car they also bang our premiums up.



As for your argument, I am not sure what you are arguing.

I am not argueing anything. Nobody wins an arguement. I hate arguements. I am stating an opinion, which like arseholes, everyone has one of which.


The demise of Ford and Holden here is not going to reduce the number of cars. It will probably be neutral. People are still going to be buying the same amount of cars, it's just that they will all be imports and all of our money will be going off shore to overseas car companies, and not supporting a local manufacturing industry.

Therein lies the problem. The auto industry is structured and promoted to make people believe they NEED to have the latest and greatest vehicle at least every 5 years.

You are then arguing proposing that Australia needs cars designed for Australia. What do you think Ford and Holden have been trying to do? Make money for their parent company in America.They were trying to export them too, and the high value of the dollar made that very difficult.

So, are you supporting the idea of subsidising protecting a local car industry to produce a local car and generating jobs and income, or not?

Absolutely. AMC. The Australian Motor Corporation. No more FOMOCO or GMH. Australian designed, built and owned.

cisco said..

log man said..
I love how you're so concerned about the "carbon footprint/environmental sustainablilty and peak oil " angle....Haha... Cisco... stop it

I am not concerned about it....but the shriekers like your self are. That is why I threw it in there.

"shrieker"!!!!! Ouch!

sorta hard to know how much of the jibber goin on is Bull but I got this today at work. Its a bit long winded but pretty disturbing if their is any truth to it. Who knows but labour and the unions might of actually killed the golden goose. Im sure there are 2 sides but I think everyone eventually has a feeling that this would happen to a large employer in Aussie eventually.

ONLY $150 million a year will save Holden? Rubbish. The Holden Enterprise Agreement is the document that has utterly sunk Holden's prospects. It defies belief that someone in the company isn't being held to account for it.
Holden's management masks a union culture beyond most people's comprehension. Employment costs spiralled way beyond community standards long ago. Neither "pay freezes" nor more money will save Holden, but getting the Fair Work Commission to dissolve the agreement and put all workers on the award wage might be a start.
In 1991, the pre-enterprise bargaining award wage of a Holden entry level process worker was $462.80 a week. In 1992, Holden began enterprise bargaining and now a worker at that same classification level has a base rate of $1194.50 a week, a 158 per cent increase, or a compound increase of 4.4 per cent year on year for 22 years. Right now, base wage rates for process workers in the Holden enterprise agreement are in the $60,000 to $80,000 per year range and in recent times, "hardship payments" of $3750 were given to each worker.
The modern award for such workers mandates base rates in the $37,000 to $42,000 range. This means that before we add any of the shift penalties, loadings, 26 allowances and the added cost of productivity restrictions, Holden begins each working day paying its workforce almost double what it should. After you add in the other employment costs, I estimate Holden's workforce costs it somewhere close to triple the amount it should.
Many people who work at Holden don't actually work for Holden; they work for the union. Occupational health and safety people are given 10 days' paid time off a year to be trained by the union. Most companies do not allow unions to train their OH&S people because the knowledge is used to control the workplace to the benefit of the union.
Union delegates are also allowed up to 10 paid days a year for union training in how to be effective union delegates and two of these delegates are entitled to an extra Holden sponsorship of one paid month off to "further their industrial and/or leadership development".
Holden's rules on hiring casuals are shocking and unheard of in today's market. The agreement forbids Holden from hiring casuals except when a "short-term increase in workload, or other unusual circumstances occurs". If this situation arises Holden has to "consult and reach agreement" with the union. Further, "Engagement of the agreed number of casual personnel will be for the agreed specified tasks and the agreed specified periods." If any of this changes, Holden must get union agreement again. After three months of continuous full-time work a casual must be made permanent. It is impossible to run a business like this.
An ex-employee from Adelaide, on condition of anonymity, consented to an interview yesterday. He described the workforce as "over-managed", with one team leader for every six workers on the production line, when one for every 25 workers would suffice.
He said "some of us workers felt it wasn't necessary to get paid what we were getting paid to do the jobs we were doing", adding that their work is probably worth about "20 bucks an hour". A few years back, mates took redundancy packages in the order of "$280k plus". Workers are "like sheep" that blindly follow the union leadership. At induction, new workers are ushered into one-on-one meetings with the union rep who heavies them into joining. "It is made clear that if you don't join the union you will be sacked," he said. Union representatives "don't actually do any work for Holden", but rather make themselves full-time enforcers of union control.
He says workers are drug tested before hiring, but "only have to stay off it for a few weeks, get in the door and then you'll be right". Workers caught taking drugs or being drug-affected at work are allegedly put on a fully paid rehabilitation program, with special paid time off of about four weeks duration, before being let back into the workforce.
Australian workplaces have a zero tolerance for drug use, with instant dismissal the remedy, but at Holden "the union won't let the company sack" any workers caught dealing, taking or being on drugs. "If they did a random drug test tomorrow they'd probably have to sack 40 per cent of the workforce," he adds.
If the Holden scenario were playing out in a privately owned business, proper cost-cutting strategies would be used. If you have the will and can hire the skill, there are many ways to cut labour costs. The workers can be given a couple of years notice of significant wage drops and can receive lump sum payouts of entitlements to help bring down family debt.
Of course, these strategies are only ever used by business people who have no one else to bail them out. It seems Holden would rather leave the country than dissolve its enterprise agreement. The union thinks members are better off jobless than on award wages. Holden's fate seems sealed.
If Holden does leave, workers will receive the most generous redundancy benefits around. Holden says leaving will cost $600m. Most of this will go to staff payouts. The fellow interviewed agrees with my calculation: the average production-line worker will walk away with a redundancy package of between $300k-500k.

If the anonymous email is valid, I wonder if Holden really had an option? If they have a workforce that are bloody minded enough, they may not have a choice when it comes to dropping their rates or not. You would think that there would have been an offer of 'drop your rates or we all close down'.

Mobydisc said..
From the latest news it sounds like the Holden workers are all going to get a golden parachute at the expense of the Australian taxpayer.

They still have like what, 3 years guaranteed work!? Until 2017?

****, I always have less than 6 months guaranteed work. Often with nothing in sight after that. I've jumped through 11 jobs contracts in 10 years, each with 0 holidays, 0 sick days etc..

I don't know what to think. Bit pissed at them perhaps. I'd love 3 year's work at what sounds like double pay (which I'll admit I'm kinda getting).

FormulaNova said..

If the anonymous email is valid, I wonder if Holden really had an option? If they have a workforce that are bloody minded enough, they may not have a choice when it comes to dropping their rates or not. You would think that there would have been an offer of 'drop your rates or we all close down'.

It's not an anonymous email. It's an opinion piece that was published on the Australian website by a journalist named Grace Collier:

www.theaustralian.com.au/nocookies?a=A.flavipes

Collier is managing director of a company called Australian Dismissal Services...

You may decide for yourself how much you trust the Australian and it's "Journalists" when the union bashing starts.

No I'm saying is try to assess why people say the things they do, what are their own vested interests in promoting a certain line? What are their inbuilt biases and value assumptions?

Apply this filter to everything you read, left and right, and you will get closer to the truth and will build a better informed, more credible critical position of your own.

What is a company called Australian Dismissal Services all about? Are they the heavies you call when someone won't leave?

Anyway the death of Holden will probably mean the end of HSV. It's a real shame that more Australians can't see the wood for the trees with these fine cars. So about 95k gets you a current model GTS(highest spec) car on the HSV line.

Here's the weird thing!

in the UK the HSV is rebadged as a Vauxhall and sells at about the sameish price as the Audi RS4 Avant. Here's a test drive where the reviewer finds it very difficult to separate the 2 cars.( And by the way this isn't the newer better model HSV)




OK and in Australia the Audi RS4 avant is close to 200k and the commy is 95k.


So why don't we rate these HSV cars. Seems to me the HSV is an absolute steal.

The Holden Commodore just doesnt cut it anymore and hasnt done so for a while, never been able to work out why someone would pay big money for a HSV, SS or Calais when there is so much better out there most of which dont have the 'yeah a mate of mine had one and the engine failed twice' story attached. Spending the money to keep the $$ in the country and a bloke employed to feed his family no problem what so ever with that thinking but to do it thinking you have the best value for money I dont agree. Dont get me wrong, Maloo utes have always done it for me and they and other cars similar attract the spend because they are unique.

Probably because the journos have been paid off to do so.

spalm said..

Probably because the journos have been paid off to do so.

I noticed the same thing with the current Falcon. People assume they are not relevant or are not up to standard. I owned one, but I used to own two. As there are so many about you hear all these horror stories and assume that they are all flakey. Both FGs I have/had have been brilliant, especially for cars with 100Kkms and 170Kkms respectively.

People read the horror stories and assume they are common, but in reality they are not. Its just that VW owners don't feel too much about complaining after they have paid for the $6K gearboxes and Ford and Holden owners do like to complain about the local product.

I think the commodore sportswagon is great. I never thought much of them shortening the wagon until I hired one in WA and managed to stuff it full of gear. It felt a bit doughy compared to the falcons, but I figured it was the smaller engine that did it.

There have been surveys done before to ask people if their cars are FWD, RWD, V8, or a 6 cylinder. A lot of people don't know, so it shows you how much the badge matters to people.

Mobydisc said..

Its unbelievable a business can ask for assistance off the government while paying its workers above award wages. It should be a condition of assistance that a workplace gets its workers on award payments before asking for a handout, including management who don't actually have an award but could have a rule where the boss get about seven times the pay of the average worker. This will ensure the business has the leanest labour costs possible under the law. It will also mean management has to get off its arse and actually deal with the huge problem that is spiralling labour costs.

From the latest news it sounds like the Holden workers are all going to get a golden parachute at the expense of the Australian taxpayer.

Perhaps the government could ask Great Wall or some other Chinese car company if they want to take over the Holden plant. Give the company a ten year tax holiday and promise workers will be paid award wages, no more, no less. However they would probably have to recruit a new workforce as its unlikely someone earning $100K plus would want to work for $45K doing the same job.

watch whats going on with Toyota and the injunction by the union that was upheld last Friday.

If the union is doing the same thing in Toyota that its doing in Holden then its inevitable that Toyota will follow Mitsubishi, ford and holden...

so much for blaming abbott!!

ikw777 said..

Where was that photo taken? It looks like its out of a Gulag from the Soviet Union. They had trade unions there in the workers paradise but no one gave a sh!t about the prisoner slaves.

There are plenty of non unionised workplaces around nowdays. many people have fulfilling careers in them. Only around 20% of the workforce is unionised now and most of them are in the public sector. Clearly in the case of GMH, the unions put the workers' short to medium term interests ahead of the industry's long term interest. The company management was too weak to stand up to the unions. As a result we have an industry closing down because it is a miniscule and shrinking part of a global industry.