John let me have a few runs on his 8.6m Evo4 today and the cam rotation is diabolical!

On the plus side, if you are lucky enough/strong enough to pop one over the rest follow.

Was stuck for couple of minutes after gybing and could not pop the cams over.Tried to push back hand as far down the boom as possible but still impossible.

If you fall off the plane while gybing,good luck with rotating the cams.

The boom could have been extended a cm or two longer but then you lose that edge of bottom end.

Don't use my 7m warp anymore as i can't get it to rotate properly.

Problem of cam rotation on modern sails is far from being solved.

Cluffy said...
My Reflex 4's are pretty stiff as well but a very helpful fella advised me that with the severne's if you pop the foot cam first the others will follow. sure enough he was right lol

Good advise. This is the same with all cambered sails. Sounds like petermac33 should learn how to use and rig cambered sails before criticizing them or use fully battened camber less sails.

the world is conspiring against him again

Its either that or he's too weak from eating non sheeple food

djl070 said...

Subsonic said...
Does anything ever work for you Peter?

Maybe manufacturers should consult him before releasing any products as it seems they keep getting it wrong

maybe sometimes the quality control lets a few lemons slip by, all my sails are N/P I don't think theres a sail I haven't had to tune up, for e,g I had to cut 1cm of off the bottom batten of my rsr 5/0, most camed sails are a bit sensitive , if im going to loan someone a sail ill make sure its setting ok

"edit" I believe you guys have bagged poor makka because he used someones poorly rigged sail rigged

My 8.6 evo 4 is fine, just give it a pump and off you go

Paul Kelf said...

petermac33 said...
Don't use my 7m warp anymore as i can't get it to rotate properly.

Take it into the shop where you bought it & the sales person will be able to show you how to tune it, simple really

Petermac actually tune something rather than just bag it out on a forum

From my memory he has slagged
KA Race sail
Large SB Isonic
Now North and NP

If his comments were actual reviews outlining both positive and negative points, shortfalls with conditions of testing / tester / other associated equipment then maybe it would be tolerable - but just slagging of products under the guise of a review.......come on peter harden up

Yes cam rotation is often harder on race sails - watch how many formula sailers do the karate kick - thats life

One of my favourite quotes that I often use to motivate myself is from an old baseball movie called a league of their own. Tom Hanks is the coach of the team and when one of his best players decides to quit because it is too hard Tom Hanks replies "It's supposed to be hard. It's the hard that makes it good. If it was easy, everybody would do it"

How this relates to windsurfing gear is this, if the fastest state of the art equipment was easy to use everybody would be riding it, except they wouldn't because it just doesn't work that way. Somebody will always take that fast easy to use gear and mess with it in a way that makes it harder to use but faster than the easy stuff. It's human nature to fiddle with things to see how far we can push it before it breaks. Fastest and best will never be easy and thank god for that.

As Windxtasy said some people sacrifice cam rotation for a super stiff Rig.
I've used my mates NP sails before and always found them hard to Rotate but I know he applies a lot of cam and batten tension.
They will rotate but you need to be aggressive through ya gybe.
If you really want a Race that Rotates easy, try one that rigs on an RDM mast.

Peter
Was the sail rigged on the recommended mast and tuned to the recommended settings?
If no then the review is of no value.

I have to say my evos (2,4&5) rotate superbly albeit my 8.6 is an e2.
In any case I am about your size and have zero issues with rotation of any of my 6 evos.
Or my 10.7 reflex for that matter..

One thing that can make rotation hard,and I recon this is what you experienced, is having the boom set too short. The batten above the boom has too straighten fully to change from one side to another.
When this happens the edge of the sail at the clew can hit the inside of the boom thus resulting in the sail struggling to change sides or tacks, this resistance will impede rotation for sure.
This can be fixed by extending the boom a cm or so,this issue would be the same for most sails.
Just my opinion..

Just found this thread, It was my sail,in its defence, rigged on wrong mast (one of the few I have left!) for zero wind ,ie less than recomended down and out haul,as Snides points out a little more boom length would have made rotation a lot easier.

I bought a NP MK3 or 4 slalom and when i put extra negative outhaul i had major trouble with rotation also. Thinking these Pryde sails are designed more for neutral outhaul rather than lots of negative,possibly due to the unusual clew design.

Was pretty funny being stuck in the middle of the river for a few minutes with no way to rotate the sail,short of a boot to one of the lower cams.

Recycle,you should have bought a 8.6m loft instead,mine rotates quite beautifully even with heaps of negative,rigged on a old Arrows 490.

I'm a bit confused....how do you have 'negative' outhaul? Surely if you put no outhaul on at all except basically tieing off the slack then that is neutral...??? Pulling on it creates positive outhaul does it not? I didn't realise you could actually have negative unless you were running way too short a boom and the sail was creased over to fit.

petermac33 said...

John let me have a few runs on his 8.6m Evo4 today and the cam rotation is diabolical!

On the plus side, if you are lucky enough/strong enough to pop one over the rest follow.

Was stuck for couple of minutes after gybing and could not pop the cams over.Tried to push back hand as far down the boom as possible but still impossible.

If you fall off the plane while gybing,good luck with rotating the cams.

Sounds like you tried it, in way under powered conditions. Maybe some less batten tension may have helped. Really every full cambered race sail only perfoms at its best, in powered up conditions.

Maybe you should try a two cambered sail...

petermac33 said...
I bought a NP MK3 or 4 slalom and when i put extra negative outhaul i had major trouble with rotation also.

Right there is your problem, Find your way to the NP website where the rigging guides say to use positive outhaul.

trying to bag out these sails too much by easing too much outhaul hooks the leech and causes the sail to stall as well as overloading the fin and causing spinout.

If you want to bag your sail out for running deep speedsailing fit an adjustable outhaul and set you boom at least 10cm more than the reccomended setting then you will rotate without too much trouble most of the time

Sailing with negative outhaul will always cause the sail to be difficult to initiate the battens to start to roll. Only use negative outhaul for downwind speed set up. You should get outhaul back on before you gybe if possible. If powered up there is not much of an issue.
Setting up close to recommended numbers should have easier rotation.
I just bought a KA race from Peter and he had major trouble with rotation. In his defence the sail is a 2012 proto type so the downhaul number does not correspond to correct setting. So I suspect Peter set it to the marking on the sail and it probably will not rotate at all.
Peter I rigged it on a Powerex z speed mast and a NP X9 and both had easy no trouble rotation of the cams. Close to 6cm less than printed as it has the 2011 numbers on sail. Rotates better than all my other race sails.
I think that it is a common mistake to rig with too much downhaul if not powered up to ideal conditions and I see this all the time. Big difference 1-2cm downhaul makes.
When you go downwind at about 120-130 degrees apparent wind then you need to twist more so the sail does not stall and that's why you need to have negative outhaul. Get it back on to neutral or slight positive when at 90 degrees or less apparent wind angle. You don't need as much twist now, and the outhaul works like a boom vang on a normal sailing boat to stand the leach up for more power. (yes more power and control).
Sorry if it sounds like a sailing lesson, but I am an international sailing coach and I hear and see all sorts of BS