windwarning said...

I know in light wind most of the time a kiter will be faster but i was out sailing rye in crapy wind a few months ago after i just got me new jp excite. and all the kiters were over taken me on me 6.5 no cam sail then the wind came up for about 20 min to 15-20 knots, and i got on a plane. i was like faster than all the kiters out there.

So got me thinking, i want a full on race against a kitesurfer in not light wind but say a good 15-20 knots of wind. where we start and finnish at the same spot.

Who has had a planned out full on race against a kitesurfer and who one?

Does anyone know what knots a kitesurfer can do in say 15-20 knots of wind?

cheers

Falling from a tall building I suspect the windsurfer would be faster, I think the terminal velocity of the kite would be lower.

nebbian said...

If I'm planing, then I've never had a kiter overtake me.

Slogging well now that's a different story.

They are quick if they want to be, but only very very few have discovered the speed bug...

Totally agree, only a specialist speed kite kit is fast and I have never seen any one using it, in really light/gusty winds most of the kites I see are sitting on the beach but I will be out having a blast on light wind windsurfing kit.

Who cares about all this? I ride the car 60mph when I drive to windsurfing, which is faster than both, but I still windsurf 'coz it's fun. You guys just do the sport you like.

Was discussing this with a very good windsurfer who has become a very good kiter a couple of weeks ago. He said the potential speeds in chop are comparable but a kiter's legs tire quickly at speed due to the pounding of the chop. A windsurfer can sit on the tail and let fin flex take out the jolts associated with generating lateral force in choppy water.

Haircut said...

Robby Naish once said, "trying to go fast is geigh"

but personally, i didn't believe him

I came across this page a few months ago. Interesting reading, particularly
the selection of the geography and why it makes it a natural speed strip for
kites:

luderitz-speed.com/

enicao: Why is the angle 110deg for maximum speed ?. One would think that having the
kite directly downwind would achieve max speed ?. I assume it's to do with the design
of the kite and the way it's designed to release wind.

Ja

i found the speed sensation of kiting in normal chop similar to riding a hypersonic or an evo. You feel like you're going reeeaaaaaalllyy fast, until the people you normally overtake are overtaking you and then you realise just how slow you're going. i'm yet to kite on dead flat water so maybe it then feels different

enicao: Why is the angle 110deg for maximum speed ?. One would think that having the
kite directly downwind would achieve max speed ?. I assume it's to do with the design
of the kite and the way it's designed to release wind.

Ja

I was talking about the angle between the direction the kiter is going and the true wind
you can't keep the kite directly downwind, cause the kites keeps going forward until it reaches the edges of the window about 95 degrees of the wind (up and sides).
the only way to put the kite directly downwind is to do a kiteloop, which is the most power you can get of the kite. it just last 2 seconds.

sometimes the kite appear downwind of the kiter because you need to think about the "visible" wind a mix between true wind and speed of the kiter.

Who cares about all this? I ride the car 60mph when I drive to windsurfing, which is faster than both, but I still windsurf 'coz it's fun. You guys just do the sport you like.

of course, but that doesn't mean we can't race.

So who can go faster? the Beatles on a windsurfer or the Stones on a Kite?

enicao said...


kiters like 10cm (or less) deep water for speed.

Why? Is there some wave-reflecting-off-the-bottom type effect happening?

That's interesting. Since you say that even with an offshore wind shallow water is better, it makes me think that there could be some other effect occuring. Perhaps this is something not exploited by speed sailing before kites. Any ideas? Intuitively there must be some physical difference between skimming over a thin film of water and planing on deep, smooth water.

Its "ground effect" from aerodynamics. Its the same thing in water. If the water is shallow it can't get out of the way so it provides more lift = less wetted area and less water to push around.

The critical depth is proportional to the width of the planing hull.

This is the reason that a wind speed sailing record authority (ISAF?) insists that the minimum depth for a sailboard record attempt must be 50 cm. (I could be wrong)

NotWal said...

Its "ground effect" from aerodynamics. Its the same thing in water. If the water is shallow it can't get out of the way so it provides more lift = less wetted area and less water to push around.

The critical depth is proportional to the width of the planing hull.

This is the reason that a wind speed sailing record authority (ISAF?) insists that the minimum depth for a sailboard record attempt must be 50 cm. (I could be wrong)

we are talking a bit too much physics I think.
I don't really care how fast I go, I won't buy a GPS to now how fast I go. its just a number and numbers don't make me happy (except if its a big number on my bank account)

the ground effect is just a story to keep the kiters from being officially the fastest sailors, like the story about kiting is not sailing.

if you consider the wetted area is the area in contact with water, its always all the surface of the board, because the spray always cover all bottom side of the board.

if you consider the wetted area is the area below the average sea level, when going fast its so little: 3cm wide by 1m30 long max, the ground effect can't change that much.
and at high speed I don't think it change much.

I actually think if ground effect creates extra lift (kiter don't need extra lift), it must also creates extra drag, moving more water in front

the only physical advantage of shallow water is the wave breaks when the depth is some % of the wave height.

by offshore wind its good to be as close as possible of the water edge (often shallow, but not always) because there is less chop. when the wind is strong, chop creates in meters

and the wind is stronger 15 meter high (kite height) than 2m high (sail height), that another physics

and everyone use the physics they want. I can say hydrofoils are not sailing, because it use physics other don't. so the hydroptere didn't break any record

I could use the tunnel effect if i wanted (I don't know the real name).

why windsurfer don't use the tunnel effect: putting edges on your board, or making it concave to channel air under the board and create lift to reduce wet area. windsurfer could use it easily (maybe it exist, but I have never seen it)

wont be over till the fat lady sings. its not really about us and the kiters anyway. its about every one all sail crafts to break tha new record now, that was set by the kite surfer. i know its just numbers and who cares but try telling someone back in the 1930s that a sail craft on water, will do 40-50 knots in the future. they would of laughed at ya and said keep dreaming son.

i think if ya told bjorn dunkerbeck it is just numbers you will make him one very angry dude.

i bet he is out there now on some speed strip trying to break the record as we speak.



so we have got to 50 knots, next 60 knots cant wait to see it on youtube