what makes for a good all around sailor?

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jp747
jp747
1553 posts
1553 posts
21 Apr 2008 7:11pm
i've always been wondering that! the top guys practise in low to highwind, flat to choppy and waves irregardless using same equipment or use dedicated ones for their areas of expertice..kauli might be good in waves but would he be good in slalom and speed? antoine is tops in just about any discipline...but for ordinary sailors like us who have different conditions for our particular spots, i'd like to think no matter what our not so perfect up to date equipment is for as long as the passion and go for it attitude is there we make good sailors but in general give the passionate sailor a range of sails for the right boards surely makes him/her better as long as the whining isn't in the equation
boardboy
boardboy
QLD
554 posts
QLD, 554 posts
21 Apr 2008 9:31pm
i think you a right! a good sailor will perform well on pretty much any equipment in any conditions. However, the better and more suited the equipment is to the conditions, than the sailors performance will also improve, ohh and so will there enjoyment!
Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
21 Apr 2008 9:39pm
The top sailors are incredible athletes. I know I am now where near their level of strength and fitness.

I am pretty sure you could get Bjorn Dunkerbeck on a 15 year old board and sail and he would outsail 95% of the average weekend sailor. However there are some amatures who are excellent athletes too.

Its like comparing the average suburban club footie player to the national league players. Sure there are some local players who are really good but most of them would never make it in the big league.

Brick
Brick
SA
66 posts
SA, 66 posts
21 Apr 2008 9:10pm
Natural ability, self confidence ,fearless competitiveness ,youthfullness ,weight range 60 - 90 Kg ,and a little wind
dism
dism
NSW
660 posts
NSW, 660 posts
21 Apr 2008 9:45pm
To be a good all rounder

I reckon having:

- couple of freestyle (simple ones) moves downpat for light winds
- riding waves equal (or around) to what an average surfer will surf
- ability to get onto plane is light conditions
- ability to stay on plane in gusty conditions
- can get some airtime
- can sail multiple conditions (5-30+ knots), chop, flatwater, etc
- can go like the clappers when flat water blasting
- have a good carve gybe downpat

Only been at it for a few months. This may not be what a good all-rounder is for the general windsurfing public, if not, what differences, I wanna get to this 'good allrounder stage'!

Above = My List to Learn and Nail in the next few years
Willaus0001
Willaus0001
QLD
333 posts
QLD, 333 posts
21 Apr 2008 9:58pm
dism said...

To be a good all rounder

I reckon having:

- couple of freestyle (simple ones) moves downpat for light winds
- riding waves equal (or around) to what an average surfer will surf
- ability to get onto plane is light conditions
- ability to stay on plane in gusty conditions
- can get some airtime
- can sail multiple conditions (5-30+ knots), chop, flatwater, etc
- can go like the clappers when flat water blasting
- have a good carve gybe downpat

Only been at it for a few months. This may not be what a good all-rounder is for the general windsurfing public, if not, what differences, I wanna get to this 'good allrounder stage'!

Above = My List to Learn and Nail in the next few years



Come on - there has to be the forward in there somewhere!?
aus301
aus301
QLD
2039 posts
QLD, 2039 posts
21 Apr 2008 9:58pm
easy...

the good allround sailor can.

sail all arvo in any conditions,
cook a massive steak feed on the BBQ and sink 20+ beers,
put one away with the missus,
Get up early for a surf to wash away any sign of the night before,
hit a big feed for lunch ready for the arvo session to do it all again.

Geez sounds very similar to a lot of Mambo comps I went to.
pierrec45
pierrec45
NSW
2005 posts
NSW, 2005 posts
21 Apr 2008 10:03pm
> the better and more suited the equipment is to the conditions
> than the sailors performance will also improve

Very strongly disagreed, with due respect sir, etc. Like the others said, good guys come out great on crap equipment.

But more to the point, I look at sailors here year after year with new equipment and no progress whatsoever to report for it. No more freestyle ever, and perhaps .1 knot, max for fancy gear. The heroes here would look ridiculous (speed-wise) in any pro race, and looking at the way you could count the comb strokes in their hair, they don't know it.

They have more and more sails so they spend their days changing rigs. No perseverance - hence why no freestyle too. The whining that they're too good for the wind at hand. And so on.

I remember a few years ago the local Olympic rep came out our way for a practice. At a light 170 pounds, he was at least 1.5 meters above anyone else. Technique, not equipment.

> ohh and so will there enjoyment

Enjoyment is like improvment: it's a choice that should come from oneself, not from the gear and the conditions not being "good enough".

I was at a freestyle comp last September with PWA guys, and everyone went out in crappy wind to practice the first morning. We just kept wiping out, that's all. That's the ticket.

My 2 cents. (Speaking of crappy equipment, look at my avatar.)
boardboy
boardboy
QLD
554 posts
QLD, 554 posts
21 Apr 2008 10:15pm
pierrec45 said...

> the better and more suited the equipment is to the conditions
> than the sailors performance will also improve

Very strongly disagreed, with due respect sir, etc. Like the others said, good guys come out great on crap equipment.

But more to the point, I look at sailors here year after year with new equipment and no progress whatsoever to report for it. No more freestyle ever, and perhaps .1 knot, max for fancy gear. The heroes here would look ridiculous (speed-wise) in any pro race, and looking at the way you could count the comb strokes in their hair, they don't know it.

They have more and more sails so they spend their days changing rigs. No perseverance - hence why no freestyle too. The whining that they're too good for the wind at hand. And so on.

I remember a few years ago the local Olympic rep came out our way for a practice. At a light 170 pounds, he was at least 1.5 meters above anyone else. Technique, not equipment.

> ohh and so will there enjoyment

Enjoyment is like improvment: it's a choice that should come from oneself, not from the gear and the conditions not being "good enough".

I was at a freestyle comp last September with PWA guys, and everyone went out in crappy wind to practice the first morning. We just kept wiping out, that's all. That's the ticket.

My 2 cents. (Speaking of crappy equipment, look at my avatar.)


Did you not see the first sentence?
'a good sailor will perform well on pretty much any equipment in any conditions'

You dont per chance work in media?

Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23647 posts
WA, 23647 posts
21 Apr 2008 8:15pm
I reckon:

Lives in WA
Has a 4WD
Has a secret spot
Drinks Redback or Little Creatures
Hates kiters in the break
Chris 249
Chris 249
NSW
3570 posts
NSW, 3570 posts
21 Apr 2008 11:55pm
"In general give the passionate sailor a range of sails for the right boards surely makes him/her better as long as the whining isn't in the equation"

Not sure; giving someone better gear may just mean that they are sailing the same, but on better gear. Maybe a sailor who is stretched to their limit by (say) handling a Formula board and a 9.5 on a reach in 25 knots, will learn one hell of a lot more about ultimate board handling than someone who is sailing comfortably on a 7 and a slalom board in the same conditions.

Many coaches and trainers try to put people under pressure, to make the training as hard as possible, because they feel that is the way to really enhance and develop skills. Sailing with a smaller range of gear can do that; or so can sailing with the "wrong" gear. Spending time right on the edge of control can really develop your sailing.

It can also mean that the sailor spends less time de-rigging and worrying about gear, and more time out there practising.



i think you a right! a good sailor will perform well on pretty much any equipment in any conditions. However, the better and more suited the equipment is to the conditions, than the sailors performance will also improve, ohh and so will there enjoyment!

Dunno again; some people relish the challenge of using fewer bits of gear, and making them stretch across the wider range of conditions. It's a personal thing, maybe, rather than a general rule.

"To be a good all rounder

I reckon having:

- couple of freestyle (simple ones) moves downpat for light winds
- riding waves equal (or around) to what an average surfer will surf
- ability to get onto plane is light conditions
- ability to stay on plane in gusty conditions
- can get some airtime
- can sail multiple conditions (5-30+ knots), chop, flatwater, etc
- can go like the clappers when flat water blasting
- have a good carve gybe downpat

Only been at it for a few months. This may not be what a good all-rounder is for the general windsurfing public, if not, what differences, I wanna get to this 'good allrounder stage'!"

I'd add;

be able to sail in light winds; be able to sail longboards as well as shortboards well; be able to race; and be able to handle race gear in imperfect conditions (big chop or gusty winds).

Just my two cent's worth.


"I am pretty sure you could get Bjorn Dunkerbeck on a 15 year old board and sail and he would outsail 95% of the average weekend sailor."

That might be closer to 99.9+% of weekenders!


MavericK040
MavericK040
WA
583 posts
WA, 583 posts
21 Apr 2008 10:16pm
Willaus0001 said...

dism said...

To be a good all rounder

I reckon having:

- couple of freestyle (simple ones) moves downpat for light winds
- riding waves equal (or around) to what an average surfer will surf
- ability to get onto plane is light conditions
- ability to stay on plane in gusty conditions
- can get some airtime
- can sail multiple conditions (5-30+ knots), chop, flatwater, etc
- can go like the clappers when flat water blasting
- have a good carve gybe downpat

Only been at it for a few months. This may not be what a good all-rounder is for the general windsurfing public, if not, what differences, I wanna get to this 'good allrounder stage'!

Above = My List to Learn and Nail in the next few years



Come on - there has to be the forward in there somewhere!?


i agree! its on my to-do list , along with some sort of a tack.
jp747
jp747
1553 posts
1553 posts
21 Apr 2008 10:31pm
Mobydisc said...

The top sailors are incredible athletes. I know I am now where near their level of strength and fitness.

I am pretty sure you could get Bjorn Dunkerbeck on a 15 year old board and sail and he would outsail 95% of the average weekend sailor. However there are some amatures who are excellent athletes too.

Its like comparing the average suburban club footie player to the national league players. Sure there are some local players who are really good but most of them would never make it in the big league.




learning to sail during dunkie's heights made me to believe he was taught the skills as a kid in first class conditions, fit and fearless and non-stop practice..jason p., on his off-season is a moto-x rider(am i right on this one)antoine does basically all watersports to keep fit and one thing that isn't shown bold letters in all these top sailors is again passion and maybe slip in determination..this a pattern of what brick has been saying too..my belief of the all-rounder starts on a hardened sailor with all of the above, then he trains on another discipline since he/she's got all the basics so wired down the rest are easier for them to master...what can you say they're paid to do iti believe in practice 10X..once heard a group of guys saying why this top 10 pwa sailor is out on practising on his kit in 8kts. of wind meant for more and the consensus was-'that's why he's good!and we're not'...but since it's too late for me, i don't whine of my backaches and 'should have used this' i just try to sail as much till the kit weighs like wifey's travelling bag going back to shore
elmo
elmo
WA
8890 posts
WA, 8890 posts
21 Apr 2008 10:58pm
Can wrestle drug crazed Aardvarks in the morning and then sail in the arvy
mathew
mathew
QLD
2167 posts
QLD, 2167 posts
22 Apr 2008 2:03am
jason p., on his off-season is a moto-x rider(am i right on this one)


Australian junior champion at 12 yrs old...

Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
22 Apr 2008 8:40am
I don't think he rides motor cross bikes any more as he had too many accidents.
Chris 249
Chris 249
NSW
3570 posts
NSW, 3570 posts
22 Apr 2008 8:47am
jp747 said...




"learning to sail during dunkie's heights made me to believe he was taught the skills as a kid in first class conditions, fit and fearless and non-stop practice."


Dunki's mother told American Windsurfer mag "He started to race at eleven. But, it was mostly light wind then, we didn't go to places where there was a lot of wind. We went out to the more quiet places with our big boards. It was a big advantage for him to race with a big board those days because he was so light. So, he soon started win."

He was fit, and he did practise a lot. He certainly wasn't big when he was a kid, although everyone thinks of him as a hulk he was actually pretty little for his age when I first sailed with him. He still kicked my ass, of course!

But it's interesting that his early sailing wasn't in what most people would call "ideal conditions", but in light winds on a longboard.
choco
choco
SA
4181 posts
SA, 4181 posts
22 Apr 2008 8:58am
"what makes for a good all round sailor"

Simple "Practise" this means living in a place where it's windy and going out with a training plan and following this plan.If you want it bad enough you will get there even if you lack abit of natural talent.

An example of practise is i took up playing golf 4 years ago and was bloody hopeless but i wanted to improve which inturn made the game more enjoyable so i used to go out and practise every night on my lawn chipping etc.
In 2 years my handicapp dropped from 27 to 10 and i won a club grade championship.
There were other players out there that never practise but these guys were naturals and always scored well..........work hard and you can achieve anything.
Richiefish
Richiefish
QLD
5612 posts
QLD, 5612 posts
22 Apr 2008 9:39am
a small head and huge goolies.( for reasons of balance) and hands like the robot from lost in space !!
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23647 posts
WA, 23647 posts
22 Apr 2008 8:13am
elmo said...

Can wrestle drug crazed Aardvarks in the morning and then sail in the arvy


Finally!!! somebody else lowered the tone of the thread, I was starting to feel guilty about my trolling
easty
easty
TAS
2213 posts
TAS, 2213 posts
22 Apr 2008 10:42am
Lots of beer and meat pies will get the all round sailor thing happening.
jp747
jp747
1553 posts
1553 posts
22 Apr 2008 9:29am
Richiefish said...

a small head and huge goolies.( for reasons of balance) and hands like the robot from lost in space !!


so intimate but a precise answer for us all would be good all rounder'sbut i don't know bout the beer and meat pies i'd probably be gybing all over the place...cool cris to race against the legend to be kicked in the butt i wouldn't mind if i were in your bootiesi had a chance to chat with dan ellis and he says"sail till a 9.0 feels like a 6.0" and robby s. i think mentioned something like "yeah the big guys are faster but if you keep your wits about it and figure a way to get thru the pack it does happen"..
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