what luck! unlaminated?

> 10 years ago
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jp747
jp747
1553 posts
1553 posts
6 Oct 2010 8:28pm
Dear fellas I had the most unfortunate experience seeing the oddest thing in my entire sailing career. The board was from Thailand and a very big company having the top riders on it's roster. I was having the 3rd day enjoying the steady breezes of a very early tradewind as I can remember from way back. After a one hour session me and 3 mates decided to take a breather. Wind picks up a bit more and we get more adrenaline pumping taking over tired muscles. On my first reach out and at speed some weird clacking sounds like huge marbles inside the board disturbs me. I stop and check maybe the fin is loose. Not! I continue on about to scratch my head. And when at speed again the sound appears in unison and this time stop. Check the mastbase maybe the joint's loose. Not! Dammn! I'm really disturbed. Tried one more reach and try not to pay attention to the sound and what the hell at speed I can't go upwind and speed doesn't go beyond what I think it could always do. I stop again and inverted the board and tried slapping the bottom. Sheet! 1/2 of the board is delaminating. I hurry back to shore and stow the board upside down in the sun with the vent plug unfastened. After 30mins. No water! My friend checks it out on the table too and gets baffled, his first remark 'holy cow!' as he was pressing different areas. The depression can go down as much as 1/4 to 1/2" at different places. Funny thing the core is still hard and at a distance you could see the whole skin flexing and waving. Worse we found out 3/4ths of the board's skin seems detached from the core but none on top of the deck. Going home they were all pumped up inside the pickup truck and I just wanted to yell shut the hell up all of you. Anyways my buddy took pics with pen marks and serial nos. and send the accompanying certification he too saw it and was an avid fan from way back 2000 and so is the rest. These two guys have tiki's tatooed on their biceps. It was a new old 2nd hand board 105 in volume and supposed tough and only a few were made. It didn't have warranty anymore but with it's 20th +/-5 use I still sent my letter with my frends pics as well and ask for a vindication for I just sold my beloved Kinetic and Fanatic at garage sale prices just to go after it. I hope my season starts out well as am left with just a 95ltr board.
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23647 posts
WA, 23647 posts
6 Oct 2010 8:47pm
Not very common but does happen.

It can be fixed with a very easy method (does not involve replacing the whole bottom and thus reshaping and lots of materials).

This assuming a complete delam over half the bottom, which is what u seem to describe:
You can drill holes about 10mm diameter through the divinycell all over the delaminated section, every 20 cm or so. If it is half the board you may do about 20 holes

Use an epoxy resin like West 105 with the ultra slow hardener (maybe 207 hardener I think ? - but anyway it is not the 206 slow hardener - you want the ultra slow one)
Then stand the board on it's side and using a 10ml syringe (with no needle) you put about 10ml resin in each hole making sure it goes between the divinycell and the styrofoam core, and runs down in between the layers.
Then stand the board on its tail for a few mins so the resin moves around as much as possible - you don't want it just in lines running down from the holes you want it to run in a couple of directions before it goes hard.
Then the board is laid flat and about 4 or 5 x 10kg sandbags placed on it - just enough to press the delaminated layers together but without weighting the board enough to cause rocker changes.

After 24hr cure, you do it again with the board on the other side. It will be harder this time as there will be no gap between the core and the divinycell layer. It may help to push a little styro away so you can get the needle in and make sure the resin is getting in between the 2 layers. Then stand on it's nose to move the resin around.
Repeat as above with sandbagging

Then next day try and get resin in with the board on it's nose or tail, just in case it did not spread well.


All up about 4 days.

Then fill holes with 3 or 4 layers of fibreglass and epoxy, grind off excess next day, and fill the remainder of hole with epoxy and q-cell made up to a consistency of peanut butter (talcum powder will do if you can't get real filler)

This is a good way to salvage a cheapish board that is not worth a full bottom replacement at $500+ cost. If it is not jumped you may get years out of it this way for about $30 cost..

the skipper
the skipper
QLD
90 posts
QLD, 90 posts
6 Oct 2010 11:16pm
Or if you use the wrong Resin the entire core will melt and you can fill it full of peanuts. Viola a giant Marracca.
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23647 posts
WA, 23647 posts
6 Oct 2010 9:39pm
the skipper said...

Or if you use the wrong Resin the entire core will melt and you can fill it full of peanuts. Viola a giant Marracca.


That would be why I said an epoxy resin with an ultra slow hardener

So yes to confirm for you JP747, do NOT go to a hardware store and tell them you are repairing a windsurf board. They will assume surfboard and try to sell you polyester resin which will melt the foam.
And don't use normal epoxy, it cures way too fast and the heat generated may melt the core.

firiebob
firiebob
WA
3182 posts
WA, 3182 posts
6 Oct 2010 9:56pm
Bugger Johno I had the same thing happen to a board of mine after 18 months which was a great free ride board, I put it down to bad luck although I wasn't happy. The thing that wound me up was the fact the Aussie agent said 18 months was acceptable for someone 84Kg sailing in 12 to 20 in choppy ocean no jumping

Anyway, sounds like Mark knows what he's talking about I repaired mine similar but took a few short cuts, I just wanted to get back on the water asap, that's when I ordered the Kinetic. Repair turned out ok, did 30 a couple of times at Yorkey's and been lent out a few times over the last 5 years
terminal
terminal
1421 posts
1421 posts
6 Oct 2010 10:05pm
When he said the core was still hard, that sounded to me like the skin had delaminated - not the divinylcell from the polystyrene?
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23647 posts
WA, 23647 posts
6 Oct 2010 10:30pm
Never seen it happen, very unlikely the outer glass has delaminated - but yes possible.....

JP can you drill a hole in the middle and tell us if the outer layer of glass has delaminated or it the divinycell layer has delaminated?

If it IS just the outer glass layer, which is like 1mm thick, it is an easier repair
firiebob
firiebob
WA
3182 posts
WA, 3182 posts
6 Oct 2010 11:05pm
On mine it was just the outer glass, strange I know but why I thought it was a manufacturing fault. An easy fix I guess, I actually just pulled the glass skin up, injected the resin and clamped. My theory was the resin would spread between the devinycell and glass. Lucky repair I guess as I'm no expert that's for sure
barn
barn
WA
2960 posts
WA, 2960 posts
6 Oct 2010 11:40pm
tiki's tattooed on their biceps? haha hardcore..

I once saw a guy with the F2 dragon tattoo. that was the oddest thing in my entire sailing career

keef
keef
NSW
2016 posts
NSW, 2016 posts
7 Oct 2010 8:51am
if the divinicell layer had delaminated to the extent you say the only thing to do is to rip the laminte off and re glass it
jp747
jp747
1553 posts
1553 posts
7 Oct 2010 7:47am
am really 'buggered' since it happened kited to get the bug off my head..terminal is right the core's hard but the skin just 'unlaminated'..Mark I thought of having it fixed but it's a major overhaul and the guy here just know how to repair cracks and small dings..anyways since me and my friend have forwarded our letters I have been told to send the board to Manila as the Brand distributor will make a 'personal' appeal. Incredible stuff it was instantaneous. Never ever did I see such a thing..if it happened to delam in small patches then it's acceptable over time
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23647 posts
WA, 23647 posts
7 Oct 2010 2:25pm
If no luck with the manufacturer, and it is just the glass that has delaminated (just the outer 1mm) it is easy to cut all that off with a sharp knife and reglass it with 3 layers of glass and epoxy. Again, a $30 job that is not hard to do
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