are you loyal to sail brands?

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greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
17 Aug 2006 11:18pm
in different sports and areas of life we all choose products we love to use and promote. lets talk about sails and our love of our chosen brands/models. i have always used pryde north gaastra (in no specific order) tell us all your particular passion for a brand or brands. my thoughts i am just penning at the moment.
might take a while (one finger typing)
WINDY MILLER
WINDY MILLER
WA
3183 posts
WA, 3183 posts
17 Aug 2006 9:36pm
4.0 - gaastra

4.4 - north

4.7 - areotech

5.3 - severne

5.7 - goya

6.7 - NP

hmmm not very loyal,

i like em all except my gaastra heatwave which is dying a death
hobie14t
hobie14t
QLD
259 posts
QLD, 259 posts
17 Aug 2006 11:38pm
I have a North Sails Trans am 8.1 and an R-type 10.5 love them for a few reasons, look great, handle well and seem to be aging well, the 8.1 is a 2002 model and I think about the same for the 10.5. That said I have an Ezzy Infinity 6.6, great sail design, feels light and looks good. I guess because North seem to have a big name in the sport I gravitate towards wanting another North rather then Ezzy, but no reason why I should neglect Ezzy. I guess that they dont have the sail line up that North do! Re other sail brands, for some reason I just dont like the Gastra range, basically its the marketing, the names dont appeal and the design isnt my taste, funny reason not to choose a sail, but its how I feel! Although its not so much a conscious decission. Pretty much the same with Neil Pryde, although they also seem to cop alot of bad press on here and that sinks in after a while I think. I am picking up a second hand Sailworks NX2 soon, had a look at the sailworks site and while I hadnt heard of sailworks much before, they sound like a very good brand. Quite a bit of history behind the guys that run the show. How does Sailworks stack up against North/Pryde and Gastra? I would been keen to find out.
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23647 posts
WA, 23647 posts
17 Aug 2006 10:02pm
I wave sail but there is ONLY ONE for wave sailing..... SIMMER.

They are strong as blazes. Pryde: $200 more and flimsy. Gaastra, bit stronger but again overpriced. North: too Euro, sucks in WA conditions. Anyone in disagreeance should look around WA spots and see if anyone other than tourists use them. Any of the "big three" brands I've ever seen, used, had mates own etc, they've fallen apart after a couple of good seasons.

If I was to buy new wave sails I'd consider Severne maybe.

North: great if you race..... they keep winning so must be OK race sails, and racers expect self destruction after 2 years.
Pryde: prolly good race sails, but maybe too much 'brand price premium' surely many cheaper race sails are as fast?
Gaastra: can't comment on new ones after Barry left.

CJW
CJW
NSW
1731 posts
CJW CJW
NSW, 1731 posts
18 Aug 2006 12:18am
I've had,

Note: All wave sails appart from the Ezzy.

2 NP's - Fell appart pretty quickly (they weren't new though so can't really comment on a new NP). However from the look of some of my mates sails after a year, i'll be steering clear.

1 Aerotech - was bombproof, pretty crapy sail though.

1 Gaastra - Was good in its perfect wind range, 2 kts either side of that and it was horrible - I hated it.

5 Norths - 2 DrX's , 2 Styles, Voodoo - I love them, they a designed around a very different philosophy compared to NP/gaastra; much straighter luffs, lower downhaul tensions and lots of pre shape. Mine have been pretty bomb proof and I give them a beating in the waves, no doubt though there are stronger wave sails out there. Big wind range.

1 Ezzy Infinity - Ezzy's set very similar to Norths imo with lots of pre shape, some people like this style, otheres prefer the NP/gaastra style which can really be 'turned off'. Big wind range like the Norths', Bombproof.

I'd buy North again and I'd buy Ezzy again. I really like the 06 Wave SE's , they feel great and are very very competitive price wise. NP's are WAAAAY too expensive for what they are imo. After I bought a NP x6 mast that was an absolute lemon I won't be buying NP ever again...appart from maybe harness lines :P

mkseven
mkseven
QLD
2315 posts
QLD, 2315 posts
18 Aug 2006 12:26am
Hell yes, it's like car brands.

My experience is based mainly on race sails (though more recently some freestyle/wave sails). I generally get a long time out of sails unless their is some design oversite such as badly placed stitching or poor monofilm quality.

Traditionally pryde, love the feel although sometimes the sails are a little too solid for going quick through the chop etc. Pryde's are more often than not step on and go fast straight out of the box no having to get used to the finer points of the sail. I loved the VX series- awesome, stable, fast and everything in the right place with relatively good longevity. After that they kind of went to sh#t, though before that the monofilm was very UV susceptible also. The rs-racing onwards seem to have improved again in quality but masts dying and general poor quality of other rig components was disappointing. The quick death of both my rx2's and sheertip v8 soon after acquiring turned me off monofilm big time. Oh and the price though they do have very good season sellout prices. Release date at the start of our season which is good.

Gaastra have some awesome designs, you want a fast blasting sail pick almost any race gaastra back to '94 but they were made to a light weight panel spec so the monofilm tended to wrinkle or rip pretty quick. Alot were "quirky" in one way or rather.

North, well made in some points though they do make some glaring faults with odd seam placements etc. Nice sails but lack that pryde feel so never fully agreed with me. Another get on and go brand. Pricing bad. I did see the 07 daytona's the other day and all I can say is build quality [}:)], double stitched seams etc very hardcore. I dont really understand the understated white/grey thing though.

Now I'm on aerotech though I dont competely know that my allegiance lies with them. Their design agenda is very different to everyone else. Some bad design points (like north) but in general the materials of their top end sails (race/wave) is very good. The silver pentex is very cool as is the cuben by all reports, the xply is also good. The standard large reinforcment xply is kind of ordinary but still better than most monofilms. Their other sails I just dont like the materials they use in luff sleeve etc. Performance very good but again a little quirky (I like quirky sails, just like quirky cars ).

This year I updated my sails, the main brands of consideration were-
aerotech, North, KA and Gun (post blade release Loft would have been included). Big detractions were for Gun and Loft due to no pre-testing/limited exposure- if I knew the aero's and North worked then thats what I would go for generally.
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14953 posts
QLD, 14953 posts
18 Aug 2006 12:46am
nope, not all that loyal,

normally buy whatever i can gest best value for. both new and secondhand.

currently own

North IQ race sails 8.3, 7.4- excellent feel and very fast. they have lasted way beyond expected. 6 years.

KA formula 8.5, kult 6.4, 5.3 and kaos 5.7 - Excellent feel and very fast, good price. all still in great condition and lasting well.

Naish alana 6.2m- ok sail not my cup of tea.

gaastra nitro 3 10.9m- still getting the rest of the rig.

previously owned or sailed.

Sailworks retro 9m- very well built. i preferred cams so stopped using it.

aerotech 8.5m - had an aerotech sail for the longboard forget the model. really didn't last the test of time so i went off them. 2 seasons i think. newer models i have seen look great.

Top sails wave wing 4.5m - ok sail. not really a performace sail but well built.

JV slalom sail 5.7, 7 - very poorly designed sails.

Neil Pryde vx & v8 8.5m- Don't like the feel of them, have seen quality issues generally up to recent models.

wild winds world cup slalom 6.5m- very poor wind range and pretty crap overall.

Stuart bell wave sail 5m - very well built.

Loft oxygen 5.3m - construction excellent, great price.

Ezzy wave SE 5.3, 4.2 - great sails, very well built and tough. handle excellently.

North prisma 6.5, 8.5 - bloody fast sails. crap wind range, old school

only brands i won't buy are pryde and aerotech. most preferred are north, KA and Ezzy. would easly buy severne, loft or gaastra too.
mkseven
mkseven
QLD
2315 posts
QLD, 2315 posts
18 Aug 2006 11:07am
oooh thems fighting words gestalt, one day you'll be out sailing the rrd thinking you're going really fast when two aerotech sailors fly up and broadside you
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14953 posts
QLD, 14953 posts
18 Aug 2006 11:49am
i guess i will see them coming in my rear vision mirror. those new aero's have some pretty serious glare.

yeah, i don't want to be too hard on aerotech, the raceboard sails were made real light. weight is everything with raceboard and that was a very long time ago.

are you up for a session next week.?
Crash Landing
Crash Landing
NSW
1173 posts
NSW, 1173 posts
18 Aug 2006 12:17pm
Current:

4.2m Simmer On-Shore Wave
4.7m Gun Wave MC
5.2m Gun Wave MC
5.3m NP Core
5.7m Gun Wave MC
6.2m Simmer On-Shore Wave
7.0m Arrows Camou-X

Previous:
Tushingham - 6.9 Race
Arrows - 6.0 Aerial
North - 4.5 Zeta
Ezzy - 5.2 Wave
Gun - 6.0 Race Slalom
Loft - 6.0 O2
Hot Sails Maui - 4.0 Wave

I know what feel i like in a sail and go for that as opposed to a brand. However I often can't afford to buy the best so buy nearly the best. Although I agree with Mark - the simmer sails are awesome, can't wait to try the 4.2m!!!!









hardie
hardie
WA
4133 posts
WA, 4133 posts
18 Aug 2006 10:50am
EZZY, and PRYDE
roach
roach
WA
25 posts
WA, 25 posts
18 Aug 2006 1:11pm
THis is the first time i've ever responded to a post on this forum even though i've been an avid reader for the past couple of years so i've dragged myself out of this apathy to contribute my 2 bobs worth. I've no doubt that most sail brands produce high end products but my allegiance is with ezzy for 2 reasons. First is that they are near 'bomb-proof'and more importantly Dave Ezzy, by all accounts, treats his Sri-Lankan factory workers with respect and looks after them more than adequately financially compared to other workers in that country. Hats off to a guy that understands the value of the worker. There is no 'sweat shop' scenario.
Roach
exoman
exoman
WA
48 posts
WA, 48 posts
18 Aug 2006 1:19pm
The workers united, will never be defeated Great stuff Dave.Great sails too
Crash Landing
Crash Landing
NSW
1173 posts
NSW, 1173 posts
18 Aug 2006 3:20pm
Fair play to Ezzy, i read about his factory and he does seem to do nice things for the locals.

One thing i did notice though is that his factory is in a free trade area which means reduce costs, taxes and usually nn import or export tax. So he's probably saved himself a bundle - but it looks like the savings have been given back to the workers.

Good work - maybe Nike (or any other manufacturer - before I get done for liable) should take a look...
mkseven
mkseven
QLD
2315 posts
QLD, 2315 posts
18 Aug 2006 6:03pm
You're conscience helps decide which sail you buy?

Sorry but if my Nike's make me run faster than everyone else then thats what i'll get. I dont wear Nike's btw they're like pryde- Teva's are much better and I dont really care where or who makes them, they work and that makes me happy.

Almost every sail brand says they treat their labour force the best- North have made the claim with Sri Lanka, Ezzy ditto, Pryde, Win Lok (gaastra and one or two others) and Barry Spanier.

Igg
Igg
WA
9 posts
Igg Igg
WA, 9 posts
18 Aug 2006 5:11pm
Does anyone have any Tushingham Storms or Thunderbird that they rate as I am thinking of getting some.
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
18 Aug 2006 7:19pm
quote:
Originally posted by Crash Landing

Current:

4.2m Simmer On-Shore Wave
4.7m Gun Wave MC
5.2m Gun Wave MC
5.3m NP Core
5.7m Gun Wave MC
6.2m Simmer On-Shore Wave
7.0m Arrows Camou-X

Previous:
Tushingham - 6.9 Race
Arrows - 6.0 Aerial
North - 4.5 Zeta
Ezzy - 5.2 Wave
Gun - 6.0 Race Slalom
Loft - 6.0 O2
Hot Sails Maui - 4.0 Wave

I know what feel i like in a sail and go for that as opposed to a brand. However I often can't afford to buy the best so buy nearly the best. Although I agree with Mark - the simmer sails are awesome, can't wait to try the 4.2m!!!!












lol
Do you guys load-up the semi for the beach mission ?
Keep on truckin' poleys.
hahahaha
hoop
hoop
1979 posts
1979 posts
18 Aug 2006 7:30pm
Funny you should say that Slave. Most times I see you at the beach you have a large bus and a van to carry all your gear your wife and your 27 children.
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
18 Aug 2006 7:31pm
quote:
Originally posted by waveslave


lol
Do you guys load-up the semi for the beach mission ?
Keep on truckin' poleys.
hahahaha



AHHHH, ha ha ha... Parkin' is not only limited, it is difficult!

Keep on truckin' - ha ha ha ha... Sadly, this is true


Pugs
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23647 posts
WA, 23647 posts
18 Aug 2006 7:41pm
Yeah Mr Slave just remember my truck is what you smash your head into in the carpark when you get a gust..... whilst the poley's sails just twist off and they go faster.... higher.... more fun..... and u crash and burn.
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
18 Aug 2006 7:43pm
hahaha
Hoop, you crack me up.

Now,
lets talk loyality.[}:)]

This forum is chocfull of brandwhores.
Not to mention pimps and their twisted mates the axe-grinders.

Folks are loyal to brands for many strange reasons.
Sometimes if only to justify the purchase of the crap gear in the first place.
Re: Resale value.
Flavour-of-the-month secondhand sails are still blown-out pieces-of-sh1t secondhand sails.
firiebob
firiebob
WA
3182 posts
WA, 3182 posts
18 Aug 2006 7:59pm
Used North race & slalom sails for years, well made and lasted.
Then switched to NP V8, crap quality, never again.
I now have Ezzy Infinity's. Well made, & I like the wind range & feel. I'll stick with Ezzy's now, good gear & simple choice, wave or slalom.

Cheers.
grumplestiltskin
grumplestiltskin
WA
2331 posts
WA, 2331 posts
19 Aug 2006 10:51am
how good do you have to be before you really notice the difference between sails?
If your like me, a cheapskate, you try and get the absolute most out of your sail before you get a new one. Then when you get the new one you think, hmmmm, this is a bit different, you adjust and carry on for another couple of years.
Then the different sail sizes react and work differntly anyway so its hard to compare.

The only way you would get a good idea IMO is if you had the chance to demo half a dozen different brands on the same day in the same conditions. The chances of which are pretty slim.

Thats a long way round of saying, I'm loyal to whatever I am sailing at the time.
jlucas
jlucas
1 posts
1 posts
20 Aug 2006 3:25am
From my perspective, there are 3 things that matter when we discuss loyalty to brands:

1 - Product

The product must be good. And all the brands I’ve had were really ok in this subject: Naish, Ezzy, Pryde and Severn produce really good sails.

But I really believe that the desirability of sail isn’t as much in the technical features as it is in the looks and in the personality of a brand. That’s what makes someone loyal (obviously considering that you believe that the quality standards of a particular brand are ok and won’t change in the future, and the other brands deliver that too, as I do).

2 - Personality

I have sails from all this 4 brands, and they all perform really ok in the conditions a need them to perform. But I really love 2 particular brands for their personality.

I really like the Naish guys for their coolness, and that hawaian aura that surrounds them. And the figure of Robby Naish ripping the waves in Hokipa is very recurrent and appealing to me - and it actually leads me to a Naish dealer in a happier mood than to a Pryde dealer.

I really like the Ezzy brand mainly for the personality of David Ezzy - and his integrity and focus to produce really strong sails: as David, the sails are realy tough and resilient.

I’d love to be a “Naish person” or a “Ezzy person”. And that’s why I’d prefer sails from this brands. But that’s not exactly what happens. My most recent purchases were Severn: a NCX 8.0 and a Gator 6.5. Why?

3 – Distribution

It was easier to by Severn sails. The dealer was closer to my home, closer to the place I windsurf and offered me good payment conditions (the price of the other brands were almost the same). Naish and Ezzy lost their chances to shoot an easy duck when they didn´t keep contact with me. As their dealers were not as easy to reach as Severne´s, they should have contacted me and kept me aware of the new releases by e-mail, phonecalls from their dealer. But that didn´t happened.

Bottom line: a prefer some brands (mainly for their personality), but this is not gonna make me spend more energy to buy a sail from them, just because I know that all the brands have really good quality standards and probably I´d be satisfied with anyone of them.
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
20 Aug 2006 8:25am
quote:
Originally posted by Mark _australia

Yeah Mr Slave just remember my truck is what you smash your head into in the carpark when you get a gust..... whilst the poley's sails just twist off and they go faster.... higher.... more fun..... and u crash and burn.



Parked trucks on the shoreline and kiters don't mix.
One good way for a kiter to deal with a hell-gust is to ride it out.
Gustbusting.
Send the kite, boost huge and wash out the power in flight.
Look out for the hot landing though.

Poleys can't do this,
so poleys get pole-axed in the hell-gust.
They catapult over the boom, gymnastic fashion, and just like a fat annoying blowfly,
gets flyswatted by their own sail.
SPLAT !
hahahahahah
elmo
elmo
WA
8890 posts
WA, 8890 posts
20 Aug 2006 9:44am
quote:
Originally posted by waveslave


Poleys can't do this,
so poleys get pole-axed in the hell-gust.
They catapult over the boom, gymnastic fashion, and just like a fat annoying blowfly,
gets flyswatted by their own sail.
SPLAT !
hahahahahah



Mr Wavey
Once again spot on
I resembled that comment last night

7.5m sail and 31-38 knots do not mix

Splattered Elmo
mineral1
mineral1
WA
4564 posts
WA, 4564 posts
20 Aug 2006 10:32am
Ahhhhh Elmo, but are they into speed runs in a big way, out pointing large racing Tri-Marians with video’s to boot.
Haven’t seen any so spose the bungie jumping bit is the only "flash'" thing the do, an you dont need a lot of gear to do that.




But really, do they compete in speed runs?
elmo
elmo
WA
8890 posts
WA, 8890 posts
20 Aug 2006 4:00pm
quote:
Originally posted by mineral1

Ahhhhh Elmo, but are they into speed runs in a big way, out pointing large racing Tri-Marians with video’s to boot.
Haven’t seen any so spose the bungie jumping bit is the only "flash'" thing the do, an you dont need a lot of gear to do that.




But really, do they compete in speed runs?



Mineral<

sorry to disapiont ya but the kiters are fanging to!

Dave over at Sandy pt plugged 44 knots (if I remember rightly)

Thats hooting in anyones books

Alby
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
20 Aug 2006 6:36pm
Not me. No brand loyalty. Right price performance and I'm anybodies.
vando
vando
QLD
3419 posts
QLD, 3419 posts
20 Aug 2006 7:19pm
quote:
One good way for a kiter to deal with a hell-gust is to ride it out. Gustbusting. Send the kite, boost huge and wash out the power in flight. Look out for the hot landing though.


yer I heard a kiter do this one day , he ended up slamming into a building. mmm im glad we can not do that.

Now back on the topic. Im pretty loyal to AEROTECH, I just think there great value for money. Can not really comment on the wave sails but certainly happy with there Race sails. Ive been using them for about 10 years now.
Bender
Bender
WA
2236 posts
WA, 2236 posts
20 Aug 2006 6:13pm
sail brand loyalty, whats that? I think the bottom line is $$$$$.

I must be a stingy bugger as i always get 2nd hand season old sails. i am totally happy with my sail range and all are different brands.

4.7 ezzy SE wave
5.3 North Voodoo (my Favorite)
5.8 ezzy SE wave
6.0 KA racing sail
7.0 Arrows Dragster

I must not be good enough to be able to see/feel the benefits of a quiver of sails from the one brand. Am i missing something or r u supposed to stick to one brand to retain the same feel in all your sails? i can feel the differences in sails but to say one is better than another thats another story. If anyone can share some wisdom on this subject i would love to hear it.
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