What makes the board lift when its howling?

> 10 years ago
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Krisiz1
Krisiz1
WA
331 posts
WA, 331 posts
13 Jul 2010 11:08pm
I had a bad experience last winter when the wind got under the board and it proceeded to do a kind of fairly ugly side loop thingy. It was 4.0 mtr weather, flattish water considering it was howling.

My question is: When choosing a smaller board for these conditions, is it the smaller volume, or the smaller surface area that makes it controllable (or my skill level)?. I weigh 78ish kg and was looking at a 68ltr Mistral Beast. Smallest board I've had was a 86ltr Mistral Electron which I considered quite floaty. The smallest sail I have is a 3.4 mtr.
gazza
gazza
WA
647 posts
WA, 647 posts
13 Jul 2010 11:34pm
i reckon 68lt is a bit small for you mate.you will sink like a stone in the lulls

Try something around 72-75lt should be fine for your weight.

I'm sure others will tell you all about board width, fin size mast foot position, and rockers lines,I will leave that to them

to help answer your question:
what level are you and where do you sail when its that windy.

OceanBlue64
OceanBlue64
VIC
980 posts
VIC, 980 posts
14 Jul 2010 8:10am
If your fin is a little too big it will generate too much lift and your board will want to tail walk and become airbourne.
sboardcrazy
sboardcrazy
NSW
8333 posts
NSW, 8333 posts
14 Jul 2010 8:43am
Is it when you are sailing along? Ive had the board blown 50mt downwwind when the wind flips it waterstarting or chophopping but I just thought that was normal for strong winds..30kts + gusting to ..>>
shear tip
shear tip
NSW
1125 posts
NSW, 1125 posts
14 Jul 2010 9:15am
As OB64 mentioned, it could have been too much fin, but it could also have been a lack of mast foot pressure.

When it's howling and a strong gust hits, the (my) first instinct is to get defensive and sheet out. this reduces MFP, and the nose will rise. You'll need to try to keep the pressure on - stay sheeted in with your weight in the harness.

When I get overpowered in the gusts, I'll pull on some more outhaul (with an adjustable outhaul) and point higher into the wind. It's how formula sailors can handle those 10-12m sails in 25 knots.
Windxtasy
Windxtasy
WA
4019 posts
WA, 4019 posts
14 Jul 2010 10:16am
All of the above.
Overfinned.
Not enough MFP (Boom too low?)
Wind gets under the nose of the board and blows it around (volume & area too large for the conditions)
flipper4444
flipper4444
VIC
1214 posts
VIC, 1214 posts
14 Jul 2010 2:30pm
not eating anought maccas, yummm.. I am 130 kilos, before when I use to be skinny my board use to lift all the time in those melbourne gales. now I am fine my wave board is a 120 litres and its a sinker for me. donuts, maccas all helps and plenty of red bull..
Haggar
Haggar
QLD
1670 posts
QLD, 1670 posts
14 Jul 2010 8:19pm
Mate, I was sailing once in about 30 knts of wind on dead flat water, the board was a 93 litre axxis, sail 5 m and I think fin 27 cm. All of sudden the wind just pick me and my kit up to a few metres in the air and just slammed me down Very unsettling as you say.

I moved the mast track all the way forward and kept more pressure on my front foot and it did'nt happen again. So technique can help as well as the right gear
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23647 posts
WA, 23647 posts
14 Jul 2010 6:29pm
gazza said...

i reckon 68lt is a bit small for you mate.you will sink like a stone in the lulls

Try something around 72-75lt should be fine for your weight.




Agree with all above replies bar Gazza's (sorry Gaz). Yes, depends on skill level but when I was 100kg my board for when it was really howling was 75L. Now at 92kg an 80L is perfectly comfortable for good seabreezes, let alone a good winter blow.

25L less than bodyweight does make it a mongrel coming out of gybes as it sinks no matter how good the gybe is, but once planing is is sweet as there is no bouncing and railing up.

Recommending 10L under bodyweight for a winter (or really good summer breeze) board is about right for WA I reckon. That is easy to grovel on in the lulls (compared to 25L under!!) but is still small enough to reduce the unwanted airtime.

At 19cm fin is a good investment too
P.C_simpson
P.C_simpson
WA
1492 posts
WA, 1492 posts
14 Jul 2010 6:30pm
75 to 80 litre wave board with a 21 or 22cm fin, perfect for windy days, heap more control in chop and you can jump it.
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23647 posts
WA, 23647 posts
14 Jul 2010 6:45pm
Simmo - he is only 78kg - 75-80L would be his summer Dutchies board........
I agree with the 68L for a howler
Krisiz1
Krisiz1
WA
331 posts
WA, 331 posts
16 Jul 2010 12:04am
Thank you for your input. From most of the info I seem to be on the right track, boom high, 23 cm Choco weedy, and who knows, the day I came unstuck I may have not been sheeted in hard.
I am a little confused by the "body weight minus 10kg" guide. 78kg less 10 = exactly the size board I was looking at, but as a percentage I am using a smaller board than a 110 kg guy on a 100ltr. (I think?)
Thanks again. Although with the amount of wind we've had over the last 3 months this is a pointless discussion anyway, but I want to be ready!
174
174
NSW
190 posts
174 174
NSW, 190 posts
16 Jul 2010 8:55am
Krisiz1 - I'm about 5kg heavier than you, I think 68L might be a bit small unless you have 3.4 winds all the time.

Am I right in thinking the electron is a bit older and longer than current boards? That shape does make it lift up far more easily than a more modern and compact board. I think if you had a more compact board, with the volume in L just under your weight in kg, you would find that pretty good and not have the sinking all the time problem. e.g. my smallest board is about 5 liters under my weight and happy on a 3.7 - but it's 222cm long and a twin which is pretty different to an electron, so carries the volume better.

So maybe you don't need to sacrifice so much volume if you get a more modern shape.
gazza
gazza
WA
647 posts
WA, 647 posts
16 Jul 2010 10:22pm
Mark _australia said...

gazza said...

i reckon 68lt is a bit small for you mate.you will sink like a stone in the lulls

Try something around 72-75lt should be fine for your weight.




Agree with all above replies bar Gazza's (sorry Gaz). Yes, depends on skill level but when I was 100kg my board for when it was really howling was 75L. Now at 92kg an 80L is perfectly comfortable for good seabreezes, let alone a good winter blow.

25L less than bodyweight does make it a mongrel coming out of gybes as it sinks no matter how good the gybe is, but once planing is is sweet as there is no bouncing and railing up.

Recommending 10L under bodyweight for a winter (or really good summer breeze) board is about right for WA I reckon. That is easy to grovel on in the lulls (compared to 25L under!!) but is still small enough to reduce the unwanted airtime.

At 19cm fin is a good investment too


he main thing with real small boards are they tend to be quite narrow
the spec for the mistral is

Length Width Volume Weight Fin* Sail Range
237cm 52cm 68ltr 6.2kg 23cm 3.0-5.7

i still reckon 52cm on a 68lt board is still pretty small for a 78ish kg(go on admit it 78ish really means 80 kg)

sure you can sail it no worries when the wind is 30+knots but you still have to be confident sailing back if the winds drop to 15 to 20 knots and your are sinking to your knees.

The worst thing with winter sailing in wa is its very gusty and up and down.

im 70kgs and use a 4.1 and a 68lt board thats 52cm wide.

i use it in mast high waves and 30+knot winds and can still get back to the beach (just) if the wind drops out.

most good sailors i know that weigh around 80kgs will get away with a 74lt board and a 4.0m sail as their smallest board with good technique and the right set up.

most board companys smallest boards are around 68lts 52cm wide.
if they are aimed at the 80kg market for strong winds where are the 58lt 48cm boards that are aimed at the 70 kg guys

petermac33
petermac33
WA
6415 posts
WA, 6415 posts
17 Jul 2010 3:24am
for me it gets down to sail size and not board size.

sailing south beach in a geniune 30 knots, it was not my 80 litre slalom board that was the problem, it was my 5.0m was too big for my less than 70kg.

have since sailed my 3.3m in similiar winds, albeit on the river and the board control was chalk and cheese.

in 25/30knots on 3.3m in control, above 30 started sheeting out, a big difference than on my 5.0m.

when you start sheeting out this reduces board control,promoting spinning out, excess lift etc.

i have a 70 litre slalom board and it is no faster or controllable in the strong stuff than my larger board.

a small fin helps,25cm or less,then again i have heard from a few that going a bigger fin esp in choppier water is the way to go,can't see it myself.

buying a really small sail makes sailing in strong wind so much more enjoyable,and you can sail all day,instead of sailing an hour and packing up!
ginger pom
ginger pom
VIC
1746 posts
VIC, 1746 posts
17 Jul 2010 9:48am
Spot on

I'm 85kg and I've got a 2008 JP FSW carbon 77. It's really light and takes off at nothing. Sailing it over powered on a 4.5m is practically impossible but dropping to a 3.7m and it becomes loads easier..
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