i agree, it's confusing to me as well. here's my opinion (which may be way off), I think B&J gear is tailored to the recreational sailor. they enjoy blasting (mostly flat water) and are not going for flakkas, nor smacking the lip. straight line, a gybe and a chop-hop here and there. comfort is the key driver. i'd consider myself one of these sailors.

B&J boards and sails favour comfortable riding, instead of on-the-edge and tend to be less technical (more forgiving) than the slalom/racing gear.

B&J does not need to ride backwards or have especially loose tails like modern freestyle. freestyle sails will favour transitions and early planing over high-end stability.

B&J does not need serious rocker to ride waves, nor the pinched tails for slashing manoeuvres on a wave face. once again wave sails favour low-end power and transitions (and durability)

so that leaves freeride, which to be honest I can't tell the difference with B&J.

is B&J a legitimate sub-discipline. probably not. if Robby can loop a one design*, I guess any board can be used for any purpose.

*and _did_ he? or is this just urban legend?

Or, in contrast to the above patronising reply, B&J can be thought of as what happens when you get serious wind in anything but very protected waters. The term has been around at least since I bought my first decent board in 1995, as it was called a B&J board by the shaper.
I consider myself a B&J sailor primarily, because, as much as people blather on about down-the-line wave sailing, very few people spend much time doing it. I prefer going fast on a back-side tack to bobbing out and cruising back on a wave face that may or may not be going very fast. GIve me a speed blast any day.
Most "wave" sailors spend most of their time in cross-onshore waves torn up by the wind, creating lots of ramps for jumps, some of which can be huge. That's B&J. Rough water, lots of wind.
Sailing in the Gorge, for example, or Maui summer is B&J.
A B&J board can be anything that's not going to trip over the rail if it's landed a bit wonky or gets slammed sideways by a big gust, and usually a fin that is bigger and more upright than a wave fin, without being a full-on slalom fin. Positive bouyancy is usually a feature too.
Getting upwind is handy, so you have some room to pop back-side airials and run down wave faces.
B&J boards are respectably fast, without being too hard to control in rough water. The speed helps big jumps.
Freestyle, FSW, smaller slalom boards and larger wave boards are the usual choice, though smaller wave boards work too, if there is enough wind.

"sailing back and forth with a few little jumps", patronising to me

grumplestiltskin said...

KenHo said...

Or, in contrast to the above patronising reply

what the hell was patronising about that answer, thought it described B&J as a style rather than a board/sail type quite eloquently

No, it was Mark's post I quoted.
So long as you are not wearing boardies over that seat harness....

I think the "Dale Cook jump" qualifies as B&J too.

Trousers said...

KenHo said...

"sailing back and forth with a few little jumps", patronising to me...

so Ken was refering to my guess (not Marks comment). I guessed wrong and didn't mean it to be patronising. I'll wear that on the chin. It's good that windsurfers are a passionate bunch and it's easy to spark a religious war (I wear a seat dammit)

I enjoyed reading his response, and I've been on the internet long enough not to be sensitive, so in my book, no foul.

bj to me is allround sailing mixed into one. ie. blasting, freewave, freestyle wave, freestyle all mixed into one. either in big swell or little chop. ocean sailing can be bump and jump, so can lake sailing, bay sailing or onshore surf sailing. it's blasting on fastish, slashy, turny gear with jumps, stacks and carves to prevent boredom.

boards need to turn well and have a bit of speed and some V. wave boards are a little too slow (rocker) for bump and jump unless the winds cranking.

sails are usually crossover sails with either a wave bias or a freeride bias but usually have a slightly higher foot than a freeride/slalom sail and definitely no cams. bj sails also have a bit more shape than wave sails so are a little more powerfull.

fins usually freewave/wave shapes.

oh and most important. gear needs to be tough!

sorry for the 400 edits.

now a word from my sponsors.... hehehehehhe hahahahahahh i wish!

http://www.lorch-boards.de/Offroad-NEW.860.0.html
www.kasail.com/windsurfing/sails/2010/2010_kult.html

Gestalt said...

lol,

what do you see?

That's awful , I can't believe you posted such filth!

;-) lmao

Gestalt said...

is it just me or does it look like 2 chicks with big bums kissing?

Big bums and tails?????? Man! What do the women look like in your neck of the woods ?

So you don't think it's patronising to say that B&J sailors only do little jumps, cos they are not pulling 30' back loops ?

C'mon dude, be a little more inclusive. If you are getting air, it's B&J. Could be big, could be little, might include loops, front or back.
I like the way Gestalt put it. I forgot to mention the crashes.

On sails, they used to make some great single and twin cam B&J sails, until Robbie decided we didn't need them any more. I had a blinder of a HOT single cam 5.5.
Grunty wave sails work a treat these days.

Edit: Just saw your edit. I've sailed a lot in cross-over conditions, where strong cross-onshore wind are turning waves into B&J, with big jumps on the way out and lots of back-side wave riding and aerials on the way back in, so maybe I don't separate them so much.
I've also had a lot of negative comments from people about those conditions, saying they are not real wave riding.

Mark _australia said...

Ken how the hell is that patronising?
Little jumps, by definition, are smaller than big ones.

Would you include 30ft hi back loops in B&J? Of course not.

It adequately describes the activity and in no way implies that those who do B&J are not hardcore. If you took it that way you read too much into it.

Nah, but if you said he just drives back and forth in his little car, that is patronising, and that is a pretty accurate paraphrase of your comment.
Glad to know I've been wave-sailing all these years. I'll tell Sean.

Last response from me. I'm sounding combative, and I don't want to do that.

Mark _australia said...

"My mate drives a little car". Descriptive, but hardly patronising. You surely must agree that most B&J involes smaller jumps than most wavesailing.

The guy asked for a definition of B&J and if I said "anything that is not freeride / slalom, in up to 30kn winds, up to 30ft jumps and backside wave riding" I'd be roundly criticised.

What I described is 90% of what B&J sailors would do or I'm sure what 90% of people would call B&J.

IMHO what you are doing is wavesailing and if you choose to call it B&J then go for it.

^^ i just want you both to know i love you guys.

you and ken, but albers is welcome also.

ken reminded me of something.

bump and jump started out life as wave slalom. that rocked. my first real board that didn't have a centreboard was a custom wave slalom 9'2". my graphics.

was flouro yellow and purple and orange. of course full polyester construction wiht a stringer.

matched it with 6.5m wildwinds world cup wave slalom in flouro yellow and removable cams. full mono!

i had som many great sessions in the surf on that board.

Gestalt said...

ken reminded me of something.

bump and jump started out life as wave slalom.

hey you said that the same time as me, so it must be true!

KenHo said...

Semantics is a funny thing.
In every other sport, slalom refers to weaving between obstacles. In windsurfing, it's going in a straight line pretty much.

Huh? ever been to a slalom race?
(im not being patronising nor do I want to start a arguement but slalom is exactly that)

In answer to the original question. Whenever you see bump and jump think wave/slalom.