Yeah the rules vary but your two scenarios are (1) hard and (2) easy

1. Sailor one is kewl. He was on the swell first, as long he did not pick it up 1km out or something silly. I'm guessing you are talking an average scenario where he only went 500m out and gybed. If you go too far out and pick swells by the time you get inside somebody else is on it so the upwind guy has right of way. Solution is stay upwind as most people gybe roughly the same distance out.
Other solution is take the second last wave in a set. If you are coming in and see your mate stalling on the inside, then just back off and drop out the back say 100m before the impact zone so he can have it and you'll pick up the next one just about the right time

2. Easier Q'n. The guy who came over the back of the wave should be shot and where I sail he prolly would be. That one always sh!ts me at Dutchies or Scarbs as I think the wave is OK for backside riding... I turn upwind towards the section.... and every time some back n forth blaster with no interest in wave riding comes over the back of the wave at 30kn right where I wanna hit it

what do you mean by that? from my viewpoint there is little common sense that can be applied to either situation.

Either you know the protocol and try to follow it or you don't and you risk pi$$ing someone off.

Above all common courtesy reigns. If you're not sure who has right of way stay out of the other sailor's way. Wave him onto the wave.

Common sense is if you're gonna run into someone do something to avoid it.

I've been thinking about venturing into the waves for the first time, but have always been a little scared about being wiped out and having all my gear trashed. But now I'm more worried about getting the rules all wrong and getting beat up in the car park afterwards!

I stopped surfing because there was too much agro and territory minding. I hope this isn't the case in wave sailing, is it?

Thanks for your input, Jens, you've helped clear up what I was wondering about stalling. Like, is it something that's just common practice or is it frowned upon?

But it's become clear that stalling is only fine if you look back and there's no1 else within cooee.

I totally agree that it's best not to have to be worrying about whose is what etc and an understanding of best practices means you don't have to worry about it cos you're not gonna put yourself in a situation where you're fighting for the same wave (hopefully).

On the other hand, you can't control what other people are gonna do so it's good to know when you can rightfully call the guy off your wave and avoid injuries, damage etc.

The one that gets me is when you(sailor 1) are wobbling in. You are up wind, see the swell you want and are just waiting for it to reach you. Mean time, sailor 2 racing out further to sea downwind gybes further out to sea, also sees the swell coming and gets planing on it before it reaches you, he is on the swell first, but you have been patiently tracking it and putting yourself in poistion when he was still blasting out.

Whats the verdict on that one ?

Also, the other one where sailor 1 is upwind on the swell and being following it from out the back. But due to him thinking the peak will be a bit further downwind, starts heading down, sailor 2 who was downwind on the swell trying to steal it, maintains his line and your paths cross. Now sailor 1 is the downwind guy and sailor 2 tries claiming it.

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Originally posted by NR


Also, the other one where sailor 1 is upwind on the swell and being following it from out the back. But due to him thinking the peak will be a bit further downwind, starts heading down, sailor 2 who was downwind on the swell trying to steal it, maintains his line and your paths cross. Now sailor 1 is the downwind guy and sailor 2 tries claiming it.

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You said it "trying to steal it". He's a snake [}:)]

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Originally posted by NR

The one that gets me is when you(sailor 1) are wobbling in. You are up wind, see the swell you want and are just waiting for it to reach you. Mean time, sailor 2 racing out further to sea downwind gybes further out to sea, also sees the swell coming and gets planing on it before it reaches you, he is on the swell first, but you have been patiently tracking it and putting yourself in poistion when he was still blasting out.

Whats the verdict on that one ?

Also, the other one where sailor 1 is upwind on the swell and being following it from out the back. But due to him thinking the peak will be a bit further downwind, starts heading down, sailor 2 who was downwind on the swell trying to steal it, maintains his line and your paths cross. Now sailor 1 is the downwind guy and sailor 2 tries claiming it.

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Thats what I was talking about. In your first part: that is where "first on a swell" rule breaks down. I am shlogging in, and the wave is 100m behind me, I'm looking over my shoulder watching it catch me. Then a guy going OUT planes past me and gybes on that swell. He is a snake and nobody likes a snake. But the RULES allow that??? That is why in wavesailing everything is "if-then-else" ..... not just one blanket rule as LoL suggests.

Your seconf bit: that explains the ho'okipa rule which is basically the sailor closer to the peak has the wave. That is, the guy who is going to have the best ride. Usually it is the upwind guy anyway in a frontside riding situation at most breaks..... so all you do is let him have it, you go back out and head upwind a bit and you will then be in a better position for a ride next time.

Hi Leech,

Stalling is normally looked down on-it is a bit snakey after all. However, you'll see plenty of stalling at Margaret River, especially on a weekend. Usually its not the locals though...

Mark raises an interesting point-that the guy closest to the peak owns it. As he points out this is usually the upwind guy in a down the line spot. However, sometimes this breaks down when people get ridiculously upwind-far too high to ride the wave properly. You'll see this at Gnaraloo when people take off at Centeries and try to ride all the way through to Tombies, and you'll occasionally see it at Margaret River in SE winds. I reckon in this case Mark's rule still applies-the guy closest to the peak owns the wave (even though in this case he is downwind of the other one). Otherwise it's just a race to the upwind position, rather than to position yourself properly for the take-off, which after all is the point of the whole exercise.

Harrow-don't stress. In general there is little agro in windsurfing, although you'll always get some pricks that want to drop in.

Cheers, Jens

Re stalling

This is a pet peeve of mine.

Stalling is effectively picking and choosing the swell line you want rather than the one you gybed on out back and picked up.

The big problem with stalling is that only the experienced sailors can do it effectively, myself I've 2 speeds, Planing and swimming so stalling for a wave is a non event.

I tend to go out back quite often further than most so as I can pick up a decent wave, On the run in you can see the stallers letting waves go through so as they can get the better set waves.

In my opinion the reason why the stallers generally do what they do is that they don't want to sail out to far and do proper wave selection and live with their choice of waves.

Myself if I've sailed out the back and selected my wave, call me ignorant but I won't give way to someone who is to lazy to pick up a wave and ride in with it.

Don't get me started about the pig ignorant areosouls (snakes) who gybe onto your waves when you have brought it over half way in to shore from out back and then expect you to then get of off it. I suppose that is why god invented bigger fins.

Once again I paint a target on myself

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Originally posted by Harrow


Is it possible for sailors to share a wave, since you don't have to be in the critical zone like a surfer because you have a sail to push you along?

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Sure is! And it can be a lot of fun doing crossovers. But you need to have a bit of an understanding with each other.

But the most fun is still around the curling lip.

Also depends on the wave, I wouldn't want to share at a place like Gnarlo, it's just too fast and to hollow, even if one of you likes the shoulder and the other the action.

If it's one of those situations where it's a bit debatable whose wave it is, and the other person is inside. I'll pull out in front of the wave, and let the other person go behind me, Then I'll ride behind them, on whatever is left of the wave.

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Originally posted by decrepit

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Originally posted by elmo

Re stalling

In my opinion the reason why the stallers generally do what they do is that they don't want to sail out to far and do proper wave selection and live with their choice of waves.

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Well Elmo mate!!! now I know what you really think of me.

Seriously though, out the back you have no idea what that swell will be like when it breaks. The part of the swell you gybe on way out the back is heading to sharkies! by the time it's got to Avalon it's probably dissapeared. The wave that peaks where we sail has come from out the back of the point, and is very hard to pick if you go too far out.
How often have you sailed out over no waves, only to see when you gybe a wave breaking inside???
Hapens to me all the time if I go too far out. That's my main reason for staying as close to the impact zone as I can, don't like missing waves.

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Told you I'd paint a target on myself

It's not you I dislike, it's the principal of stalling and picking and choosing.

Lining up a dud wave is part of surfing, not enjoyable but part of the experiance.

Alby

Sorry Gestalt, agree with what???

Is it the sailor stalling at the head of the queue that's there first, Or the guy that's gybed out the back that's first on the wave.

depends how you look at it,

what i am saying is that i believe that the first guy on the wave has right of way.

what you supposed to do at lano when: sailor 1, sailor 2, sailor 3 are coming down the face and your screaming into the bomie just about to break with sailors 5,6 and 7....all within 10m of each other and sailors 8 - 19 coming in on the next wave

Just to clarify my definition of stalling.

I do not class waiting for a wave to catch you up as stalling if you have sailed in on the flat in front of said wave.

The practice which gets me going is where people stall for ages and let a number of waves go past them to pick up a better wave.