Always wondered.....

Now I've cut a DRAM Acid (2003) in half, I can't see why anyone would go the extra for wood.

(1) the DRAM is still double sandwich (divinycell and Herex) where it counts. Only the front 1/3 is single sandwich. The construction sh!ts all over some others I've seen cut up. EG F2's with a single sandwich and trying to make up for it with piss-weak stringers, or (older) Mistrals that say "carbon" and have a strip 1ft x 1" of carbon in them.
(2) The dyneema layer is the same material used in the newer bullet-resistant vests (no, it is not Kevlar). That layer laminated with resin is surely as good or damn near as good as a wood layer right?
(3) Wood is harder to repair if you do smash it. A small repair in the DRAM model can be done with glass and epoxy and layer of red / white / whatever paint and be almost un-noticeable. The wood one needs a bit of pine of close colour (pine goes from almost white to quite yellow) and the grain will still look wrong and the join obvious. Wood is fine, but I reckon stick it under paint, not exposed to the eye (Starboard r u listening?)

Who would pay $200 extra for a wood model???? Anyone have any test data for the relative strengths of the two?

Anyway side note: having repaired a few boards... I reckon we should all make warranty claims after the warranty period expires. Every snapped board I've seen has a section of glass (strangely enuf, right in the snapped area) that has not been wet out with resin. That is bloody inexcusable as it is SO obvious during construction. If the owner (first owner or only owner) uses a waveboard on the river or lake, it doesn't break. Then after a year, they land it flat from a 6ft jump and it snaps. If the laminate is NOT wet out, then it would have snapped on the first day of a good sailor using it. How pissed would u be if you bought a 18 month old waveboard, used by a light weight chick on the river, and your first jump at Corro's breaks it (even if not landed flat)????? No I haven't been affected by that I've just seen some snapped boards of shonky manufacture. A fault in the board that is not exposed by "light" use should still be covered after the warranty period if it breaks during "normal" use.
Ranting over.

Hence why I like starboard over many other brands, their construction **s over many others. Starboard originally painted over the wood but then after several promo boards where seen with wood exposed the market demanded the wood exposed. The good thing about the wood is i find it is more resilient to dings and punctures so does not need so much repairing. Personally I love the wood look but my thinking is still wave/freestyle board DRAM, slalom board wood.

And yes, if the cloth ain't wetted out it should remain warranty issue- but what would the manufacturer do, replace it with another $500 waveboard?

Looks like nobody cares

Reminds me of the Nokia phones about 5-6 years ago when one particular model had the screens stuffing up. Bloody expensive to fix. The ****3rs were deny warranty claims ONE day out of warranty when it was a resident fault known to affect about half the phones. Company that size denying claims on a $10 unit, they should be shot

I've had a bad run out of production boards not making it to 2 years My second last board was a Naish Enduro, only lasted 16 months. I sail in North Queensland for christ sake, we only sail in chop, it still looks new The Aussie importer offered 30% off retail on a new board, I bought a Kinetic instead, over 2 years now and still going strong

Cheers,
Bob.

I question the quality control that comes out of that cobra factory like firiebob I only got 2 years out of my JP freeride board and I am a 80 kg weekend sailor, even had the repairer ring the retailer and tell them it is a fault, was basicly told tough SH#T its outa warrenty.

mkseven where do you think JP boards are made..

i read some pretty stupid **** on this forum about where boards do and don't come from.

mk your not the guy who has my old F2 are you??

Decrep: Exactly. Cobra build the boards to the manufacturer's specs. There is varying "construction levels" in boards (waveboards at least). The phrase used by those in the know is "top line Cobra construction".... that is what Starboard and others (don't quote me but pretty sure RRD also) use. If your shop cannot tell you what it really is, and only have a glossy display pic of all the layers in the board (which may be 1 micron thick!!!!) then don't buy it!!!!! Some brands I can think of use a different thing every year like x-shaped carbon hybrid wa^ky stringers and so on....to give the illusion of development or progress..... but they bl00dy well break!! If you cut 50 different Cobra made models over the last 5 years in half, you will see about 20 different constructions. But there is one enduring one... double sandwich with glass, and either a small area of aramid / spectra (dyneema) or carbon reinforcement.

I am constantly amazed at how strong plain old double sandwich with a bit of carbon in the hi stress area is.

If there are any continuing non believers out there I'll email you some pics. I will not post the name of the crap brand here lest I (1) be sued or (2) get sponsored by them one day hahaha
I'll give you a clue, if it was TopGun his callsign would be Foxtrot2 (but there are many others)

Trouble is, sometimes don't know what the innards are like cos they won't tell you! Not enuf deatil to REALLY know anyway. Easy enuf though.... if they are sailed by west aussies and NON SPONSORED hawaiians you'll prolly be alright. Eg: Starboard, the old Sonic from Oz (magic!!), RRD, Delta (Kinetic). If it is Euro oriented like F2 (oops), Fanatic, Tabou, BiC, strewth the list goes on but I'm going on too long.... anyway I think you are asking for trouble with many of them.

However, yes you still get a few of any brand with the glass not wet out properly, Cobra should pay up even if out of warranty, and shoot the offending laminating dude cos it is not rocket science.

Acid is double sandwich of 3mm d/cell and 3mm Herex, top and bottom. Single sandwich for the front third (roughly

No joke mineral, and that's dealing with them direct, explaining my weight, sails & conditions
Don't get me started on F2, had a F2 Ride before the Naish, which collapsed the mast track after 18 months. When I cut it out to replace, I couldn't believe how crappy it was fitted. Construction overall is nothing like the brochures And what's with all the staples
I don't know about anyone else, but this black duck can't afford a new board every 18 months

Firiebob yes correct, none of us can, or want too. Sounds like they lost a customer for good, all over a pittance really.
But as I indicated, if you do the failure analysis with supporting evidence it will stand up.
Bit like doing a fire investigation, get the route cause, document and place facts in front and if its not to the standard, then the option is from the shop who sold it to make good.
Most State law make the retailer responsible but its possible the shop slipped its responsibilities by directing you, or allowing you to go direct to manufacturer. A standard ploy buy some in the business of retail sales unfortunately.
Mineral

Curac exactly as the poster who followed me said in regards to my point. I know you love you're JP's and their freeride, freestyle and wave boards have great shapes. Maybe they have improved their construction I don't know cause simply I don't use them.

Yes I have you're old F2 (remember before you attack me i've seen you're repairs ). It hasn't received much work recently, it has had the finbox cut out, all the rails reshaped and i'm currently working the bottom. That board I don't believe would have snapped easily however they did not reinforce the deck well enough where you're heel ding was, around the mast track and underneath the pads which although never presented a problem to you is delamed underneath the hard foam. I think they went overboard with bottom reinforcement and the honeycomb aluminium stringer tripped me out.

I can back Mark_aus's comments I have another board here which must have some reinforment on the deck cause it has none on the bottom which consists only of 3mm hardfoam, 1 layer glass (which appears not wetted out in certain spots) in the standing area and the plastic outer which is that thin it disappears with a slip of the sander. No way would I have paid $2000 or whatever the asking price was new knowing the construction.

And then there was the F2 SX I had which sustained more damage in one month than either a starboard (second hand 1 year's solid use by me) or a Bic carbon (6 years use) have.

Does that go for me too? If so I apologise for being a softc0ck who catapaults a lot.

You don't care that two brands of the same price have radically different STRENGTH of construction..... and you can't tell at the shop?

Or maybe you don't believe me that I have seen the inside of a few boards?

Sorry Curac if I ended up annoying you, mate that's really not what I want to do. It's just when you think you've been hard done by, or you think something is trash, it's hard to let it go.
I agree with what you say about freerides, but at the end of the day, 16 months is not good enough for a board that has been well looked after. If we had waves in NQ, I'd have a wave board for sure, but no such luck.
If I was still doing catapults, and I don't, I can't see how that would have caused the faults in my boards.
If you ever make it up here curac, I'll share a beer with you

Cheers,
Bob.

is there laminate between the foam on the double sandwich board? Is the outer foam a higher density?

ive been thinking of building a board and am looking at the options.

Yes basically it is (inner to outer) styro, 1 x glass, 1 x divinycell (hi density foam), 1 x very thin glass or just thickened resin followed by another hi density foam, then 3 x glass.
That is very rough indication for an average good waveboard.

I always wanted to build a board and know I could from other projects. However check out www.ecboards.co.uk ..... shows you how to do it and you will change your mind trust me.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark _australia

check out www.ecboards.co.uk ..... shows you how to do it and you will change your mind trust me.

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Think he's a bit over the top Mark, don't think it needs to be quite that complicated.
But yes, it's a lot of fiddly work building a board, especially if you're going to double skin it. If there's no glass between the skins, using 1 X 5mm instead of 2 X 3mm isn't a lot different, except that with 2 layers you can step their densities, hardest on the outside.