I've been windsurfing for a couple of years now, and about 18 months ago moved to a 107L JP FSW. It's been a great board, and I use 3 different fins with it (25, 31, 38) and sail anything from a 4.7-6.6 sail on it.

This has meant I've ended up playing around quite a bit with the setup - the mastfoot, straps, and boom height - and the differences they make.

BUT, I've been struggling with upwind sailing, particularly in Port Phillip Bay where we get pretty big chop. I've found I'm spending the majority of my time on the water concentrating on pointing upwind as high as possible, to make sure I avoid the walk of shame. It's rare for me to find myself making plenty of ground upwind.

I've read so many articles about the topic - roll over the front foot, push off the back foot towards the front of the board, lean forward of the mast to maintain mfp, etc - but I reckon there's something fundamental I'm doing wrong. It just shouldn't be this much hard work!

You know how there are moments in windsurfing where you just get stuck on something, and it's not working, and you don't even realise what you're doing wrong? I remember feeling like this about waterstarting, until I saw Guy Cribb's gybing video showing how you place your heel on the middle of the board and "moon walk" it towards you to get the board pointing downwind. Waterstarting is the most natural thing in the world for me now!

I'm hoping that I can find something like that for my upwind sailing. So, if any of you have had a similar experience, and have "cracked" sailing upwind, let me in on the secret! What was it that cracked it for you?

And, does anyone have any suggestions on board/sail/boom setup? For instance, I used to use larger fins but I now generally use smaller ones for the same conditions, because I'm finding that maintaining board speed seems to be more critical than the ability to push really hard off a big fin, especially in heavy chop. But with the boom, I would've thought higher was better, but I'm finding the reverse to be the case. The same with mast position - further back seems to make sailing upwind a little easier, although this may be because I'm in more overpowered conditions.

Help! I'm confused!

Tristan

Well going smaller in fins certainly won't help your upwind ability!!!!

I was having a bit of trouble getting upwind last time I was out. Had my harness lines too far back, causing me to over sheet, moved them back a centimetre or so and it all came good.
But if you have them too far forward, it can cause excess back foot pressure causing you to spin out, especially if you're using an undersized fin.

I've been out of windsurfing for more than a couple years now. The gear has got better but I am sure the techniques are still the same.

However the reason I am here is because I am looking to get back into it.

Sounds like you might be missing something basic but sometimes the basics are not spoken about and you may know it already.

As you have read already lean forward with pressure on the back foot but the secret is to keep the board flat. When I first started riding short boards (yep I started on long boards) I tended to rail the board. This tends to be slow as you displace a lot of water. Keep the board flat by pointing your toes (rather than digging you heels in), let the board glide over the surface with all the side pressure on the fin. Flat is fast!

Once your up and planing don't maintain the same course you got planing on. Steer up into the wind. High and slow, low and fast. It's a matter of finding the best compromise between point and speed. You need to stay fast enough to "ride the fin" and let it lift you upwind.

Mast position rearward makes the board looser for gybes but for staying up wind push it forward a bit more and make sure you hang your weight off the rig and unload the board.

Hope this helps.

decrepit said...

Well going smaller in fins certainly won't help your upwind ability!!!!

I was having a bit of trouble getting upwind last time I was out. Had my harness lines too far back, causing me to over sheet, moved them back a centimetre or so and it all came good.
But if you have them too far forward, it can cause excess back foot pressure causing you to spin out, especially if you're using an undersized fin.

Generally I agree, but with a board with straps over the centreline where you cant hold the board flat and it rolls you wont go upwind very well. At 38cm he is using a bigger fin than I use with a wider slalom board, outboard straps and 7m sail.

I wasn't saying go small, rather as big as you can comfortably take and have control (ditto with sails, rig big- rig it right). If it is a nice fin that you can control nicely then 38cm is fine.

could it be the board? all the things taught to you are still fine but no matter what if it's a freeride board with not so boxy rails like a slalom one then you're downwind 30% more or less than previous unless really powered up..just my opinion

mkseven said...

decrepit said...

Well going smaller in fins certainly won't help your upwind ability!!!!

>>>>>>>

Generally no, but with a board with straps over the centreline where you cant hold the board flat and it rolls you wont go upwind very well.

I wasn't saying go small, rather as big as you can comfortably take and have control (ditto with sails, rig big- rig it right).

Sorry Mark I wasn't replying to your post, but to this line in Tristan's first post.

And, does anyone have any suggestions on board/sail/boom setup? For instance, I used to use larger fins but I now generally use smaller ones for the same conditions,

That's the problem with my 2 fingered typing, you beat me to it, and it looks as though I'm replying to you.

TristanF said...
Really helpful. I think maybe I'm pushing too hard against the fin, to make sure my sailing line is high, but I'm actually losing ground because I'm not going fast enough, and haven't got enough water running over the fin. Thoughts?

From how I read this, this sounds like you aren't planing.

Are you fully powered up and planing when you try to go upwind?

definately sink the windward rail slightly (carve) when going to windward. don't over do it though.

freestyle boards and wave boards have soft rails.

slalom etc boards you can keep flat or rail to windward as they have sharp rails.

[
Stupid sport, wish they would make up their minds the correct way to do things I tended to sink windward rail when not planing and fin has little flow/lift, but convention was when planing you are putting force from fin etc in wrong direction if you sink windward rail.

agree with you mark when powered up more should be flat and lean body forward put this is very dependent on fins, small wave fins you have to engage the windward rail unless you are overpowered. But slaom to cross over with more upright fins you can sail flat

Sailing up wind.If you really want to sail fast up wind.Try the hypersonic 105.
The dynamics of this board design has this quality.

Argonaught said...



"Heel pointing back under me" does not sound good. The back leg should be almost straight. Heel under you is more of a stance for sailing off the breeze. But even then you should have so much apparent wind that you are almost fully sheeted anyhow.

Cheers

Just to clarify, I am sailing with my back leg straight out, leaning forward looking arounf the mast. My back foot is at times at a 45 degree angle, with my toes pointing to the back leeward side of the board.

Alright!

Today I went out in the Bay in 30kts with a 5.3 on a 87L Fanatic Goya FSW with a 23cm wave fin.

Completely and utterly overpowered, but I focused on keeping up speed and the board flat, and turned upwind more to keep in control than to avoid the walk of shame. Despite not being able to complete a single gybe, and losing ground as I got pummeled waterstarting in the heavy swell, I managed to sail back to the same point and even gain some ground on one run.

So I think the big lesson for me has been to not worry about cranking so much upwind, and focus on board speed first.

Thanks for the advice.

mkseven said...
[Going upwind is easier if you have the power to drive you, especially when in chop so try either bigger sail/less downhaul or outhaul.

Or less downhaul more outhaul???

evlPanda said...

mkseven said...
[Going upwind is easier if you have the power to drive you, especially when in chop so try either bigger sail/less downhaul or outhaul.

Or less downhaul more outhaul???

yes,

mkseven said...
[Going upwind is easier if you have the power to drive you, especially when in chop so try either bigger sail/less downhaul or outhaul.

Me too: I need the power to get upwind. If I'm underpowered then I get upwind better when I let some outhaul off...

Might be different if you're well powered though.

sboardcrazy said...

Been so long since i've had a sail when i can get on the plane I've forgotten what it feels like..but i feel like i spend all my time trying to stay upwind while everyone else flies past on a reach..

From your profile it looks like you have been sailing a while but it sounds like you may not have unlocked the secrets of apparent wind.

If everyone else is planning something must be wrong. If you are trying to stay up wind don't be afraid of bearing away to get on the plane then pinch up a bit but keep the speed up to stay on the plane. Your speed plus the wind speed gives you more wind in your sail. You never get this power without board speed in the first place. This is crucial in marginal conditions and if you can master it you will be the ones flying past others wallowing.

Also if in marginal conditions it may help to nudge the mast base forward a little. The amount will be dependent on how sensitive your setup is.