Making sails fast

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Matty R
Matty R
VIC
6 posts
VIC, 6 posts
19 Dec 2007 12:33pm
Is it better to have more downhaul on a sail, for it to be faster. Is the flatter the sail, the faster it will go ?
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14953 posts
QLD, 14953 posts
19 Dec 2007 11:55am
it depends on wind strength. also if you are sailing along a speed bank the angle to the wind comes into it.

light winds less downhaul and strong winds more downhaul.

thing to remember is that you are rigging to suit the apparent wind when you are planing
akhawk
akhawk
WA
1085 posts
WA, 1085 posts
19 Dec 2007 11:11am
Does that mean that the printed luff length on a sail is for a specific wind strength or is the luff length variable depending on the wind by using either more or less extension? (I hope this makes sense!)
ChrisPer
ChrisPer
WA
70 posts
WA, 70 posts
19 Dec 2007 11:14am
Its not the tension, its the SHAPE. For lighter winds, the sail needs to be deep to generate more thrust. In strong winds you need to control the thrust, so a flatter form but still with aerofoil shape is the go. DO NOT wind it up until the sail is flat and hard for strong winds, because it must curve to work.

Whatever the wind speed, the form of the sail should be sweet to gaze upon, free of wrinkles with the mast and battens obviously filling their pockets straight and obviously shaped as design intended.

Its taken me a fair while to achieve that with scabby mix-n-scrounge gear and I am starting to get there helped by advice and practice. Now I want to mount telltales - little bits of wool - so I can better understand the airflow.

A couple of years ago I was foredeck hand on a Spacesailer 22 and the sailmaker came for a trimming cruise with us. Just a few words from him had the boat going as fast as it ever had gone; the first leg of the race gave us a lead that many screwups on the remaining legs couldn't quite eradicate.

Smooth airflow. Shape.





Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14953 posts
QLD, 14953 posts
19 Dec 2007 12:47pm
akhawk said...

Does that mean that the printed luff length on a sail is for a specific wind strength or is the luff length variable depending on the wind by using either more or less extension? (I hope this makes sense!)


the sail will have a tuning range it is capable of working in. so too much downhaul or not enough downhaul will make the sail not perform the way it was designed.

basically the downhaul effects the luff curve on a particular mast stiffness. sails are designed to work with a particular luff curve so the downhaul is required to achieve the curve.

the recommended settings on a sail vary depending on make. some are the medium downhaul required and you tune the sail either way with a cm more or less of downhaul to suit the conditions.

other sails give min/med/max downhaul settings.

eg, to much power means not enough downhaul,
too much back hand pressure means not enough outhaul etc.

sailor weight kicks in at this point. a lightweight will prob want more downhaul or a smaller sail compared to a heavyweight in the same wind strength.
swoosh
swoosh
QLD
1929 posts
QLD, 1929 posts
19 Dec 2007 4:51pm
http://www.ezzy.com/sails/se08.cfm <<go here and click on the SE rigging video link. I think the basic concepts described by ezzy here pretty much apply to all modern sails, thou obviously each sail probably has its quirks. And exactly how much looseness is required in the leech to get the appropriate amount of twist to suit the conditions.

www.north-windsurf.com/en/support/Download-Archive
www.ezzy.com/sails/pdfs/2008/se_rigging.pdf
you can also go to these links and download the rigging guides, its for northsails and ezzy, but again I think the basic concepts hold true.

I kinda blitzed the web looking for rigging advice, after it was made pretty apparently last week that I pretty much didn't have a clue what I was doing.

As far as luff lengths etc go, I think they are a good rough guide, but use the visual cues from observing the looseness of the leech to fine tune the sail.


Two of the clips from the ezzy site:



*edit* just realised, you probably already knew all this and just wanted to know how to make them extra fast, i feel kinda stupid, anyway, this stuff helped me, mebe it will help someone else.


mathew
mathew
QLD
2167 posts
QLD, 2167 posts
19 Dec 2007 5:01pm
Nice work "Matty R" - are you Brucie?
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14953 posts
QLD, 14953 posts
19 Dec 2007 6:52pm
KA make sails fast

Haggar
Haggar
QLD
1670 posts
QLD, 1670 posts
19 Dec 2007 7:06pm
Hey Matty, Theres a good point to add that is in the "Faster" DVD that I have proven through experience. That is, if you use freeride sails for speed and GPS sailing, your might need to exceed the manufacturers rigging recommendations, simply as you are using the sails outside the manufacturers intentions. I think this is mainly for downhaul. At SP I downhauled my sail to where I thought it was too flat, I was really after more control, and I instantly got several my knots on my top speed. Also recently I thought I was setting my sail correctly for speed until one of QLD's fastest sailors put another few inches downhaul on for me. So if you are trying to get more speed out of a freeride sail, experiment, especially if you are overpowered and are sailing broad, which is what you do for speed anyway. If you are using a speed sail, then just follow the manufacturers recommendations for the conditions and angle you are sailing at. Well thats my limited point of view anyways
eyeMhardcor
eyeMhardcor
255 posts
255 posts
19 Dec 2007 9:15pm
The best and quickest way to make the sail fast is to let me use it, I'll make it go fast.
Mr. No-one
Mr. No-one
WA
921 posts
WA, 921 posts
19 Dec 2007 9:29pm
Your a shy little flower, aren't you. If only you had more confidence in yourself.
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14953 posts
QLD, 14953 posts
21 Dec 2007 11:46am
mathew said...

Nice work "Matty R" - are you Brucie?


clearly the answer is yes
silvec01
silvec01
WA
645 posts
WA, 645 posts
22 Dec 2007 12:58am
POINT TO NOTE:
Did you know that the luff measurement screen printing stencils are usually made before the sails get fully designed. Dont fully rely on these measurements :)

nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
22 Dec 2007 1:09am
To go fast:

More downhaul, less outhaul, sail broader. You'll be surprised
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