Into the straps and heading upwind

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raf1200
raf1200
QLD
41 posts
QLD, 41 posts
12 Nov 2010 11:37pm
i'm having trouble getting into my straps. I've read back foot and then front. I can get my back foot in but have to leave my front foot close to the mast. If I don't I find it really hard to keep the board pointing downwind. Even with the back foot in I had to lift my back heel to take all pressure off the windward side of the board.

What am I doing wrong? Could it be mast foot placement? I have mine way back. Until today I didn't realise how much weight ditribution affected direction when planing. I feel uncomfortable and am sure I look b****y uncomfortable!

Any help would be appreciated.
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12872 posts
WA, 12872 posts
12 Nov 2010 10:09pm
Sounds like your fin isn't producing enough lift. That's what should be counteracting your weight on the rails.
2 main factors, fin size and the speed you're going.
Would probably also be a help, if you could tell us some detail about you're gear, board size fin size etc.

The other thing is how much weight you've committed to the harness, that's transmitted thru the rig to the centre of the board.

Lifting heels and pointing toes, to keep the board flat, is the way to go, until you're really up to speed, then you may have to do the opposite to stop the board "railing up" too much.

jp747
jp747
1553 posts
1553 posts
12 Nov 2010 10:25pm
maybe practising getting into the front footstraps first then harness then backstraps would be better than the other way around..by the time you get your foot on the backstraps your board slows down cuz pressure at the tail plus the raking back of the sail and boom I presume stalls the board..by doing the opposite you build enough speed first with your front foot pushing the board downwind then when all are in the straps you should be at planing speed easier enough to point upwind without slowing downmy opinion..regards
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12872 posts
WA, 12872 posts
12 Nov 2010 10:44pm
Think I agree with JP, I normally go front foot first.
terminal
terminal
1421 posts
1421 posts
12 Nov 2010 11:01pm
If you put your back foot in first, the only advantage is that you are less likely to get catapulted when getting the other foot in. You do have to keep your weight off the back foot and take your weight on the boom and down into the mastfoot when getting your front foot in.

Getting your front foot in first is the better way as it is less unsettling to the board but the downside is that it is more likely to result in a catapult.
You need to try to keep the sail powered as you get your front foot in, as that stops the board slowing, but dont get overpowered. You then have both feet close together, which can be a bit scary, but necessary to keep the board planing properly.
You then try to get a smooth piece of water to get the back foot in. If the wind is fairly strong, you can pull your back hand toward you a bit to oversheet the sail but still have enough power to keep the board planing. The advantage compared to sheeting out for less power, is that you are less likely to get catapulted as you get your back foot in, as the pull is more across the board.
raf1200
raf1200
QLD
41 posts
QLD, 41 posts
13 Nov 2010 10:20am
ok. I'll give it a go. Thanks for the tips.

If it helps, 80kg
5.8m sail
155 litre board
42cm fin

Haven't tried it with my small board yet for a comparison.

I did try putting my front foot in first but still with my weight that far back the noise pointed upwind. I have the straps as far forward and in as I can.

Thanks again for the advice.
RumChaser
RumChaser
TAS
633 posts
TAS, 633 posts
13 Nov 2010 11:39am
I always go front foot first. As a tip, keep the weight of your back foot toward the centre of the board otherwise you are going to rail your board and it will tend to turn into the wind and stall. After you get comfortable in this position, then you can slip the back foot in, but one thing, as it was explained to me when I was learning, getting the back foot in is a leap of faith.
terminal
terminal
1421 posts
1421 posts
13 Nov 2010 8:55am
Its very important to keep the power in the sail when you put your front foot in. That helps to stop the board turning upwind and helps keep it flat and planing.

There is always a tendency to sheet the sail out because of fear of a catapult.
If I want to turn the board off the wind, I have to hold the sail toward the nose of the board and its like blowing the nose away from the wind. It also creates a twist through my feet, where there is more force on the front foot, which helps push the nose away from the wind.
Its a bit like that with getting the front foot in - you have to keep the power in the sail and get the front foot in fast so it can take the power of the sail and keep the nose off the wind.

After I put my front foot in, my feet are only 6" to 9" apart, and you have to get used to the space from the front strap to the rear strap, so you can hit the rear strap fast and accurately. I find if my back foot was actually touching part of the front strap, I have more of a feel for hitting the rear strap accurately.
aus301
aus301
QLD
2039 posts
QLD, 2039 posts
13 Nov 2010 11:44am
Raf, if you are using that big plastic board of yours then you might not get completely comfortable, as discussed the other day, they just aren't as easy to sail as the new stuff.

You will for sure find it easier on your new board, even if it is a bit smaller than I would have recommended for you.

As above, try getting your front foot in, leave the back foot till last. So front foot in, harness hooked and loaded, pressure on the mast foot (so your weight hanging off the boom). Then once plaining you will find it reasonably easy to lift your back foot and slide it into the strap.

If you are back at the Broadwater have a look for Justin for some pointers, or at Manly I am sure Simon or some of the guys up there will give you a tip or two.
JoLee
JoLee
QLD
294 posts
QLD, 294 posts
13 Nov 2010 11:56am
Raf on a NEer you might find a few friendly helpful sailors up Wynnum end
Windxtasy
Windxtasy
WA
4019 posts
WA, 4019 posts
13 Nov 2010 11:22am
I nearly always put front foot in first for exactly the reason you state.
Use front foot pressure to bear away slightly, sheet in, hook in, front foot, back foot, is the sequence I use.
If it's really windy I may put my back foot in first right at the beach start or waterstart, but you need to have the board pointing downwind.
frant
frant
VIC
1230 posts
VIC, 1230 posts
13 Nov 2010 4:41pm
Also do a "search" on this forum for "trouble getting into straps" etc. It does come up regularly so there is a lot of good advice available.
And by making this comment I am by no means suggesting that the forum contributors have a "here we go again' attitude to beginners asking questions. its more that we are crumby typists.
ginger pom
ginger pom
VIC
1746 posts
VIC, 1746 posts
13 Nov 2010 6:23pm
As you move back, keep looking forward and sheeted in. Get a more experienced sailor to have a go on your kit to check your set up.. if your harness lines are too far forward it could be causing all your problems...
sideskirt
sideskirt
328 posts
328 posts
13 Nov 2010 3:33pm
I usually put my back foot just in front of back strap, and to the center of the board (regarding it's width).
Let go a bit downwind (risk factor), at learning phase when I went for front foot in the strap, I also pressed with my back foot's toes, to prevent board heading upwind to much and lose speed, then when I got the front foot in the strap, I started to head a bit upwind, so you get less power and prevent gusts catapulting you, at this point you can sail for sometime or just keep practising this position until you are feeling comfortable enough to slip the back foot in the strap.

Jem Hall's beginner to winner helped me a lot when I had trouble.

The harness is how ever you feel like, better to hook in when in straps in some way, so you can let go of the sail if you start catapulting, or sheet it out at least.
I rather hook in first, then straps, so I don't need to pull the sail to much and keep some strength.
GusTee
GusTee
NSW
266 posts
NSW, 266 posts
14 Nov 2010 10:38am
Hi Raf,

I'm a beginner and have only been using both straps the last 3 sessions. Just a couple of points that helped me get into the straps. Some of which may be bad habits which more experienced people on the forum can correct.

1. I suggest leaving out the harness part just till you work out getting in the straps. So you can commit all to getting the straps working.

2. This is important. Make sure you have enough speed. If you don't have enough speed then you'll sink the tail and always round up into the wind as you attempt to get in the straps.

3. To have enough speed, make sure the rig is raked forward towards the nose. This wil make sure you're downwind enough to generate good power.

4. Your forward hand on the boom needs to be as far away from the mast as possible. Go as far back as you can hold with your forward hand. If it gets too much release some wind from the sail using your back hand, trying to stay sheeted in. You will be leaning back to hold this position which will give you lots of power and speed.

5. Now you have speed and ready to go for the front strap. Make sure the back foot is not far from the centreline of the board. Do this so that you don't bank the board as you go for the strap with your front foot. As I'm going for the front strap make sure you have as much power in the sail as you can hold. Otherwise you will slow down and turn into the wind as your back foot pushes the tail away from you. If the wind is light enough as I'm going for the front strap, I throw the rig a little more forward then sheet in to make sure you don't loose any speed.

6. Once the front foot is in now go for the back one. If you lost some speed getting the front in (happens when you're a beginner), hold off getting the back foot in. Build some more speed again. Do not place any weight on the heel of your front foot. That will make the board turn into the wind and loose speed. Lift your heel up (on the front foot). This turns the board down wind and helps you pick up speed. Now you can commit more force to the rig for really good acceleration as you have at least the front foot locked in. Remember forward hand on the boom as far from the mast as possible for max power.

7. Build up speed. Once you have speed, start slowly sliding the back foot near the harness. Do not lift it off the board. Just slide it till you can feel the strap on the side of your foot. Once you've found it ready to get it in, again slightly throw the rig forwards till nearly all your weight is on your front foot due to sail pulling you forward. Make sure you don't over weigh the heel on your front foot or you'll turn into the wind killing momentum. Now your back foot is light. Go for the strap get it in.

8. You may have lost speed again getting the back foot in. However you're now in both straps connected to the board fully. So you can now commit max force to the rig. So be brave, slide the forward hand away from the mast that little bit more. Lean back, pull as hard as you can. Keep weight on your toes to stop turning into the wind.

9. If the wind is there, at this point you'll be moving fast. If it's choppy, stay out of the harness, knees slightly bent to absorb the bumps. If it's smooth, have a go at hooking the harness in. Or just leave the harness and enjoy your moment of triumph. Always keep as much power in the sail as you can or you'll slow down.

10. If the wind drops or things go wrong and you're slowing down, step out of the straps or you'll end up turning into the wind or sinking the tail. Straps only work if you have enough speed.

Hope this helps.



KenHo
KenHo
NSW
1353 posts
NSW, 1353 posts
14 Nov 2010 12:20pm
Use your harness, and keep your weight committed to keep power in the sail and the board planing well on a steady course.

Front foot first.
Front foot first.
Front foot first.

While it is possible to put the back foot in first, it's a lot harder, and it does not make sense to struggle to do that. You are much more likely to have a catapult and the board is very hard to keep steady and straight.

Use a board with a single centre back strap. The further out-board the straps are, the harder to get in to. Your foot will catch on the water shooting past and the board will round up more easily.
Once your front foot is in, walk you back foot back a few inches at at time
When you unweight your back foot to move it, the board will want to round up.
You need to keep your front arm straight, with some pressure pushing the mast away a little, to keep the centre of effort in front of the centre of lateral resistance. Sheeting with the back arm and pushing away with the front will keep the board on a steady course.
This is why you need your harness. Out of the harness, you will tend to pull the mast toward you, and bam, luff city !! Once your back foot is up against the strap, you are ready for the last stage of lifting your foot briefly and slotting it into the strap.
As always, bend ze knees !!
On flat water, you can take your time. Don't freak out and make sudden or desperate movements. Take your time, keep the board steady, small movements, be a good passenger.
In choppy water, you will see experienced sailors get into the straps in a wink, wanting that control, but that is not an ideal learning environment. That will come in time.
raf1200
raf1200
QLD
41 posts
QLD, 41 posts
16 Nov 2010 3:37pm
now I feel enlightened. Thanks to everyone who replied. Seems like everyone backing everyone else up in different ways... basically suck it and see

If anyone wants a laugh I think I'll be making some photo worthy attempts this weekend at the Train! Speed and front foot first... Speed and front foot first... Speed and front foot first...

Cheers All!
Windxtasy
Windxtasy
WA
4019 posts
WA, 4019 posts
16 Nov 2010 1:52pm
one more thing
practice getting into the footstraps with your board on dry land (no fin)
Have your sail set up and hold the boom for a bit of stability.
Have your straps in an inboard position.

Start with your feet in your normal starting position and practice getting them into the straps without looking at your feet. Front foot then back foot.
If your back foot keeps hitting the strap rather than sliding in you may need to adjust the distance apart they are.
Repeat until you can do it smoothly without looking down, then try it on the water.
Haircut
Haircut
QLD
6491 posts
QLD, 6491 posts
16 Nov 2010 6:39pm
are you actually starting to plane along before you try getting into the straps? it might just be lack of speed

the more speed you've got, the less hull is in the water and the further back the pivot point (red dot) gets, and the easier it is to work your way back down the tail of the board without it rounding up into the wind. as the board loses speed and drops off the plane, most folk need to quickly move their feet forward again

Generally most people learn using the front foot first approach (but not all)

most seem to find it easiest to head across wind or slightly down wind on their first attempts

once you get the front foot in, concentrate on keeping the board flat (bottom pic). First attempts often result in too much pressure on the heels and therefore rounding up into the wind. to avoid this it may require you to conciously put pressure on your toes, pulling up on the strap with the arch of your foot, and lift your heels a bit. This will keep you going in a straight line

once you get both feet in and are maintining speed, you can tilt the board (A & B bottom pic) and make it turn left or right like a surfboard, but you gotta be planing to do it

here are a couple of really bad pictures that might help




fullmoon
fullmoon
WA
314 posts
WA, 314 posts
16 Nov 2010 6:01pm
Well done Haircut. Very good simple explanation.
For that you get a AAA ebay rating
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23647 posts
WA, 23647 posts
16 Nov 2010 6:49pm
raf1200 said...

ok. I'll give it a go. Thanks for the tips.

If it helps, 80kg
5.8m sail
155 litre board
42cm fin



Agree with front foot first and most of the other advice.

No insult intended, but many intermediates trying to get in the straps think that you must get into the straps to go fast. Not the case - you use the straps because you are going fast . Thus I suspect you may be trying to get into the straps too early - most people do.

With that setup, an advanced sailor of your weight would be using it in 20knots plus (it would be hard to make the board not plane, and hard to not get in the straps)
I guess you may be using it in much weaker conditions- where it feels like it may plane soon but it is not strong enough wind to get onto the plane without a bear away and pump and very careful correct weight placement.

You may need more wind, probably front foot first, and always 50% (plus) of your weight on the boom whilst moving the feet back into the straps...... possibly all 3.

raf1200
raf1200
QLD
41 posts
QLD, 41 posts
20 Nov 2010 11:41pm
After following everyone's advice today I think my windsurfing went to a new level. 30 knot winds might have helped!

Thanks to everyone who offered an insight. Worked a treat.
KenHo
KenHo
NSW
1353 posts
NSW, 1353 posts
21 Nov 2010 10:16pm
Congratulations !!
I was at the Train for an hour on Saturday. I wonder if I saw you ?

raf1200 said...

After following everyone's advice today I think my windsurfing went to a new level. 30 knot winds might have helped!

Thanks to everyone who offered an insight. Worked a treat.


saltiest1
saltiest1
NSW
2568 posts
NSW, 2568 posts
21 Nov 2010 11:29pm
stoked
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