Does sail selection really matter?

> 10 years ago
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flanagaj
flanagaj
WA
177 posts
WA, 177 posts
9 Dec 2013 10:35pm
You may have read my other posts regarding switching my 08 Gators for a set of Blades, but now I have seen a deal on a set of 2012 S1 sails. But the more I think about it, the more I think to myself. Does it really make any difference to the average sailor who struggles to tack, carve gybes ok 80% time and is just getting into proper wave riding?

If you look at the Severne Team riders, they all rip on either the Blade, S1 or Gator. And I suspect if you gave them a different model in the Severne range they would also still sail amazingly. In fact, I think those guys could really feel the difference between the Severne wave sail range, but I am not sure us mere mortals would.

Is it just another excuse to potentially waste money, in the hope that your sailing will improve?
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12872 posts
WA, 12872 posts
9 Dec 2013 11:09pm
As long as the sail design suits your sailing style and weight, ie, some people prefer wave sails that turn off hard when depowered, and put up with the loss of bottom end and the tendency for battens to catch on the mast when gybing. Others prefer sails with a good bottom end, easier rotation and cope with them not turning off quite so hard. I don't see much reason for changing sails until they wear out, unless you're sure thwere going to be an advantage.
Production sails seem to be driven mainly by the marketing department, there has to be a new range every year regardless of whether there's is any improvement. Sometimes changes even seem to go backwards!
flanagaj
flanagaj
WA
177 posts
WA, 177 posts
10 Dec 2013 4:37am
What you say is interesting, but I was speaking to a guy today who is a good sailor and he admitted to me that he would struggle to tell the difference between sails. He says he knows a bad sail, but if he was blindfolded he would struggle to tell them apart.

My theory, is that same conclusion can be applied to the majority of windsurfers out there. The same sail could be awesome one day and terrible the next, all because the conditions on the 2 days just happened to be slightly different.

Your point regarding pushing new sails every season is the issue here.
RumChaser
RumChaser
TAS
633 posts
TAS, 633 posts
10 Dec 2013 10:43am
I don't think differences in sails makes as much difference as how they are rigged. A good sail that is not rigged well won't perform, simple as that. The extra couple of percent improvement one sail may have over another I probably couldn't pick anyway. All my sails are a couple of years old, they do me and I won't be changing them until they are held together by at least half a roll of duct tape.
boardsurfr
boardsurfr
WA
2463 posts
WA, 2463 posts
10 Dec 2013 8:20am
I agree that replacing sails often usually makes no sense, and that differences in trimming often are much larger than differences between sails. The S1 and the Blade are pretty close to each other, based on the descriptions. I don't think you'll notice a lot of differences most of the time, but you may notice a difference when pushing them to their limits.

I have not sailed Severne sails often, so I can't talk about them, but I can talk about the Gaastra sails I own and use often. The difference between the Matrix (freeride-freerace, 6 battens, probably similar to the Gator) definitely has more stability and speed potential than the Manics (5 batten wave). But in crazy powered conditions and chop or waves, I'll rather use a Manic, because it can be turned off better, and is easier to sail with less than 100% power. If it's light and reasonably steady, I'll pick a Pilot instead because it it much lighter than the Matrix, and definitely easier to pump and handle in jibes. The Pilot is less stable at the top end than the others, though, and requires additional outhaul when the wind picks up. A 4-batten sail like the S1 may be similar in this respect.

So if you'd own both Blades and S1s, you'd probably notice differences after a while. But unless you are often sailing in conditions where one of the sail lines has a clear advantage (e.g. the Blade's higher stability in strong gusts), you'll probably be happy with either choice. But check if the S1s are 4-batten or 5-batten versions. Even the Severne web site admits that the first year of 4-batten S1s had a narrower wind range. That may or may not be a problem, depending on how steady the wind is where you sail, and what kind of quiver you are getting.
peguin
peguin
WA
276 posts
WA, 276 posts
10 Dec 2013 8:33am
there is a difference in sails and thats what the market blurb tries to tell you and its up to you to decide which is suitable for you. You will be able to tell if you like a sail or not.
I cannot sail "power' hard feeling waves sails as I find with my style and weight i have to concentrate on the sail control rather than sailing and with generally the power centered towards the middle/back of the sail, it feels like I have to push down harder to ensure MFP. This is just how the power type sails feel to me of course.
Where as with soft wave sails I forget about them and just sail. I like the soft and forward pull and find them very forgiving especially when messy landing or in confused waves. My mate doesn't like the forward pull of my sails as he feels like its going to catapult at any moment so down to the rider feels.

On flat water it didn't matter which sail i used but on waves or freestyle then it really upsets my confidence when sailing which is what it is all about. so best to demo sails in the conditions which you mostly sail in or aspire too.
deejay8204
deejay8204
QLD
557 posts
QLD, 557 posts
10 Dec 2013 11:25am
I found I like the weight and feel of wave sails over a few others I have used. I have to agree with peguin they are definitely softer on the forward pull and lighter in weight as well.
qldnacra
qldnacra
QLD
455 posts
QLD, 455 posts
10 Dec 2013 11:33am
I have an S1 and a blade and np combat hd's. There is quite a difference between them. The S1 is really good in it's sweet spot wind wise but that sweet spot is pretty small. It's gets a bit back handy and a bit twitchy when it's at the top of its range. The blades have a bigger wind range and have a very smooth and stable feel. If the S1 was always in its sweet spot or you sail where the wind is very constant you wouldn't use anything else it's is very light and like a scalpel. The blade isn't exactly heavy and will suit a much larger variation in conditions and therefore if I was to buy from scratch I would go for the blades. They are really nice. The combats are wicked. Not dissimilar to the blade in some ways. Good wind range and beautiful feel. They feel like they might have a tighter skin tension than the blades maybe. I have also sailed the atlas and don't like it. So it's not a brand thing. Previously I had np firefly's which I liked at the time and sailed a wizard a few months ago and it was the worst sail I've ever used. Very focused on freestyle and not good at anything else. So my advice is buy something that isn't too focused on one thing and that suits varying conditions. Blade and combats brilliant at most things. The S1 has a more of a narrow focus and the wizard is the so focused in my opinion it isn't good for anything but freestyle. So I think you shouldn't underestimate the value of getting the right sails for what you do. If your not going to upgrade every year then you are going to spend a long time not enjoying your sailing as much, you just maybe won't know it until you have a go on the "right" gear. Also make sure you have the right mast for your sails.
baywavebill
baywavebill
VIC
266 posts
VIC, 266 posts
10 Dec 2013 2:15pm
qldnacra said..

I have an S1 and a blade and np combat hd's. There is quite a difference between them. The S1 is really good in it's sweet spot wind wise but that sweet spot is pretty small. It's gets a bit back handy and a bit twitchy when it's at the top of its range. The blades have a bigger wind range and have a very smooth and stable feel. If the S1 was always in its sweet spot or you sail where the wind is very constant you wouldn't use anything else it's is very light and like a scalpel. The blade isn't exactly heavy and will suit a much larger variation in conditions and therefore if I was to buy from scratch I would go for the blades. They are really nice. The combats are wicked. Not dissimilar to the blade in some ways. Good wind range and beautiful feel. They feel like they might have a tighter skin tension than the blades maybe. I have also sailed the atlas and don't like it. So it's not a brand thing. Previously I had np firefly's which I liked at the time and sailed a wizard a few months ago and it was the worst sail I've ever used. Very focused on freestyle and not good at anything else. So my advice is buy something that isn't too focused on one thing and that suits varying conditions. Blade and combats brilliant at most things. The S1 has a more of a narrow focus and the wizard is the so focused in my opinion it isn't good for anything but freestyle. So I think you shouldn't underestimate the value of getting the right sails for what you do. If your not going to upgrade every year then you are going to spend a long time not enjoying your sailing as much, you just maybe won't know it until you have a go on the "right" gear. Also make sure you have the right mast for your sails.


What year is the S1 sail you use? (The 2014 S1s are meant to have a lot bigger range. They claim 2 sails will now cover a range that required 3 sails in the 2013 range)
qldnacra
qldnacra
QLD
455 posts
QLD, 455 posts
11 Dec 2013 12:25pm
baywavebill said..

qldnacra said..

I have an S1 and a blade and np combat hd's. There is quite a difference between them. The S1 is really good in it's sweet spot wind wise but that sweet spot is pretty small. It's gets a bit back handy and a bit twitchy when it's at the top of its range. The blades have a bigger wind range and have a very smooth and stable feel. If the S1 was always in its sweet spot or you sail where the wind is very constant you wouldn't use anything else it's is very light and like a scalpel. The blade isn't exactly heavy and will suit a much larger variation in conditions and therefore if I was to buy from scratch I would go for the blades. They are really nice. The combats are wicked. Not dissimilar to the blade in some ways. Good wind range and beautiful feel. They feel like they might have a tighter skin tension than the blades maybe. I have also sailed the atlas and don't like it. So it's not a brand thing. Previously I had np firefly's which I liked at the time and sailed a wizard a few months ago and it was the worst sail I've ever used. Very focused on freestyle and not good at anything else. So my advice is buy something that isn't too focused on one thing and that suits varying conditions. Blade and combats brilliant at most things. The S1 has a more of a narrow focus and the wizard is the so focused in my opinion it isn't good for anything but freestyle. So I think you shouldn't underestimate the value of getting the right sails for what you do. If your not going to upgrade every year then you are going to spend a long time not enjoying your sailing as much, you just maybe won't know it until you have a go on the "right" gear. Also make sure you have the right mast for your sails.


What year is the S1 sail you use? (The 2014 S1s are meant to have a lot bigger range. They claim 2 sails will now cover a range that required 3 sails in the 2013 range)


2012 5 batten S1, 2013 Blade, 2013 and 2014 Combat HD's. The S1 is unreal in its range and they may have improved the wind range but I still think that the Blades would have a better wind range and suit a wider range of conditions. I haven't tried the 2014 S1 4 batten only the 2013 so I'm not speaking from experience. It's just the S1 seems to be a more narrow focused sail.
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