Crushed toes in front strap...what's the problem?

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nosinkanow
nosinkanow
NSW
441 posts
NSW, 441 posts
14 Nov 2010 2:00pm
Dunno how I did this but at the time I was having a blast...literally. Good 15-20 knots and going flat chat and overpowered with the 7.5 in the gusts. After a few long runs I noticed I had sore little toes on my windward front foot (right). I thought I was just pushing them too hard through the strap when planing downwind and broad reaching. It's not a new strain as I've felt this before many years ago in the same overpowered conditions but without injuries. It feels like I'm getting to the point of pushing my toenails out of the skin, note that my straps fit reasonably well. Anyways I continued sailing as my stamina is improving with every session. Wind was too good to stop.

End of the arvo I hopped off the board and walked on the hard packed sand and noticed there was a distinct pain in my foot which forced me to walk on the inside part of my foot, I didn't notice this on the board when standing upright in between gusts. Last night it was swollen. This morning still the same and Googled what bones it could be, tracked it to between the "Middle Phalange and Metatarsal" of the second little toe where the toe becomes the foot.

I've got to figure out what caused this, straps could be tighter? Quality of the factory Excocet strap could be be better padded? Or is it an old motorcycle injury, 15 years ago, where my toes were damaged when the footboard of my old crusier folded up and crushed my toes when I was T-boned by a car? I suspect the latter, other is the strap. What do you guys think, anyone ever receive this injury from an ill fitting strap?

No point in getting it looked at, as it will be one of those self healing jobbies. It's a bugger, its blowing again today and the missus is being cared for this week by her nurse sister so it means I've got time off! Double bugger!

[EDIT: Was "Lateral Cuneiform", incorrect bone diagnosed.
easty
easty
TAS
2213 posts
TAS, 2213 posts
14 Nov 2010 5:11pm
nosinkanow said...

No point in getting it looked at, as it will be one of those self healing jobbies.


mmm, maybe, but......
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Tasmania/Q-Why-put-up-with-pain/
mineral1
mineral1
WA
4564 posts
WA, 4564 posts
14 Nov 2010 2:15pm
You can try this, it can’t hurt, and normally when something like this happens, your stance has adjusted just slightly, due to for want of a better wording "Chassis alignment at the hips.

Sit on a mat with your back against a wall, place your feet together, (or as close as you can get to bottom facing bottom)with small arm/hand pressure applied, draw them as close in towards your backside as comfortable, at the same time, let the knees fall outwards.
This will be uncomfortable but the discomfort will slowly dissipate over a few minutes as you stretch the joints and muscles.
This exercise, will tend to realign hips to pelvis to spine. sleeping improve and allows you stance to go back to original.
Hope this helps.
nosinkanow
nosinkanow
NSW
441 posts
NSW, 441 posts
14 Nov 2010 6:58pm
easty said...

nosinkanow said...

No point in getting it looked at, as it will be one of those self healing jobbies.


mmm, maybe, but......
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Tasmania/Q-Why-put-up-with-pain/


Thanks easty, its got me thinking, but I'm 90% sure there is nothing that can be done but rest. I broke my little toe on the other foot when I was in my early 20s, it was laying 90° to my foot, the doctor taped it up to the second little toe and said don't walk on it for a couple of weeks and gave me crutches. This current injury reminds me of the bike accident one, they just pressure bandaged my foot and gave me crutches also but I had other problems more worrying from that crash. In my mid 20s I had a compression fracture in my metacarpal bone in my hand which is the equivalent of the one in my foot, the doc just bandaged that as well and gave me Panadol.

I'm more interested in what could have caused it. I'm really suspecting its the old motorcycle injury aggravated by putting lots of sideways pressure on my toes, something I do not normally due to it in anything till I took up windsurfing again and never a problem before. If it is caused by the strap I want to know how to fix it, eg. reposition the strap to a more acute angle or fit aftermarket quality straps for a snug fit. But wanted to hear from others who may have suffered the same problem.
nosinkanow
nosinkanow
NSW
441 posts
NSW, 441 posts
14 Nov 2010 7:03pm
mineral1 said...

You can try this, it can’t hurt, and normally when something like this happens, your stance has adjusted just slightly, due to for want of a better wording "Chassis alignment at the hips.


Thanks mineral1 I used to do this exercise when I did the martial arts many moons ago so very familiar with it, it's a real groin stretcher. Do you suspect that it's my stance? Wrong front foot strap angle coz I'm suspecting that too. Pity it's going to take a few weeks before I can try out the theory.
gh
gh
NSW
156 posts
gh gh
NSW, 156 posts
14 Nov 2010 8:19pm
Are you pulling up with your front foot? Sounds like you are pushing away to counteract the pull of the sail and this would result in your little toe getting crushed against the outside of the front strap. Had a similar thing happen last year when I took up snow boarding, pushing too hard with the front foot and jamming the little toe into the bindings, bloody sore by the end of the day.
DrJ
DrJ
ACT
481 posts
DrJ DrJ
ACT, 481 posts
14 Nov 2010 9:06pm
When I had a kona one the first thing I did was change the straps. Kona have been pathetically cheap with the supplied ones, I recommend the Neil pryde straps fully adjustable and well padded very comfy.
nosinkanow
nosinkanow
NSW
441 posts
NSW, 441 posts
15 Nov 2010 5:12pm
gh said...

Are you pulling up with your front foot? Sounds like you are pushing away to counteract the pull of the sail and this would result in your little toe getting crushed against the outside of the front strap. Had a similar thing happen last year when I took up snow boarding, pushing too hard with the front foot and jamming the little toe into the bindings, bloody sore by the end of the day.


I think I might be pushing it away as you suggest.

I'm having trouble straightening the front leg and keeping the back one bent when I just lean out, I seem to gain the most speed with pressure on the back foot and lean back. Dunno if this is a carry over from the days of old and sailing fast on open bumpy water when both legs are bent to absorb and correct the board's direction when you hit chop. I used to sail this way and did get a fair bit of spin out with wave boards and wave fins but that seems to be how I get max speed. I've lately been shutting the brain down and use the "just do it" mentality and went with what felt natural and the above is what I ended up doing. It could be all wrong!

I've been trying all sorts of body positions in fast runs eg. leaning back (how I use to do it) and lately just leaning out. Dunno if I'm getting lost in the theory with modern gear but if I lean out I find more speed if I twist my hips sideways facing forward, and thinking about it is when my leading foot pushes hard against the inside of the strap just where the metatarsal bones are. But no problems in a port tack. I reckon I've aggravated the bike injury. If this is the case my right foot is going to be farked every time I sail in overpowered conditions! And I like being overpowered it's a hoot!

If DrJ is right about the Kona OEM straps, and is what I also suspected, perhaps a better quality strap might be in order. I'll have a look at the angle of the current strap position on the Kona first and do a dry run and see if I can replicate the angle of the dangle I used to sail when I damaged my foot. If that's the real problem I'll change the angle. If the angle is OK I'll swap over my old Gaastra straps from my old wave board as a test, they were comfortable.

Last thought, perhaps it's also the size of the Kona One, it could just be so friggin big and heavy for long sessions in stronger winds, but this board is designed to go fast for its size in high wind...which it does. Good excuse though to just put in the Fanatic Xcross "shortboard" and shut the brain off and just get on with it. Just a bit anxious coz I don't feel my skill level is up there yet to use it....just being a big woose me thinks.

Hope this foot is not going to be an ongoing problem.
sboardcrazy
sboardcrazy
NSW
8333 posts
NSW, 8333 posts
15 Nov 2010 6:11pm
nosinkanow said...

gh said...

Are you pulling up with your front foot? Sounds like you are pushing away to counteract the pull of the sail and this would result in your little toe getting crushed against the outside of the front strap. Had a similar thing happen last year when I took up snow boarding, pushing too hard with the front foot and jamming the little toe into the bindings, bloody sore by the end of the day.


I think I might be pushing it away as you suggest.

I'm having trouble straightening the front leg and keeping the back one bent when I just lean out, I seem to gain the most speed with pressure on the back foot and lean back. Dunno if this is a carry over from the days of old and sailing fast on open bumpy water when both legs are bent to absorb and correct the board's direction when you hit chop. I used to sail this way and did get a fair bit of spin out with wave boards and wave fins but that seems to be how I get max speed. I've lately been shutting the brain down and use the "just do it" mentality and went with what felt natural and the above is what I ended up doing. It could be all wrong!

I've been trying all sorts of body positions in fast runs eg. leaning back (how I use to do it) and lately just leaning out. Dunno if I'm getting lost in the theory with modern gear but if I lean out I find more speed if I twist my hips sideways facing forward, and thinking about it is when my leading foot pushes hard against the inside of the strap just where the metatarsal bones are. But no problems in a port tack. I reckon I've aggravated the bike injury. If this is the case my right foot is going to be farked every time I sail in overpowered conditions! And I like being overpowered it's a hoot!

If DrJ is right about the Kona OEM straps, and is what I also suspected, perhaps a better quality strap might be in order. I'll have a look at the angle of the current strap position on the Kona first and do a dry run and see if I can replicate the angle of the dangle I used to sail when I damaged my foot. If that's the real problem I'll change the angle. If the angle is OK I'll swap over my old Gaastra straps from my old wave board as a test, they were comfortable.

Last thought, perhaps it's also the size of the Kona One, it could just be so friggin big and heavy for long sessions in stronger winds, but this board is designed to go fast for its size in high wind...which it does. Good excuse though to just put in the Fanatic Xcross "shortboard" and shut the brain off and just get on with it. Just a bit anxious coz I don't feel my skill level is up there yet to use it....just being a big woose me thinks.

Hope this foot is not going to be an ongoing problem.


Re thinking.. yep I sometimes wonder..back in the 80's I just used to sail & enjoy now I'm trying to do everything like a text book..
nosinkanow
nosinkanow
NSW
441 posts
NSW, 441 posts
15 Nov 2010 7:17pm
sboardcrazy said...
Re thinking.. yep I sometimes wonder..back in the 80's I just used to sail & enjoy now I'm trying to do everything like a text book..


I was talking to Gidget the other day, she said (paraphrase), "What's wrong with you old windsurfers? You guys think too much!". Hmmmm...she might have point.

I'm adopting a new attitude, just go by feel and if it feels good keep on doing it! And if it doesn't after the session go for the ice-pack, Panadols and Brufens!
KenHo
KenHo
NSW
1353 posts
NSW, 1353 posts
15 Nov 2010 7:26pm
Feeties like booties.
The little surfing ones with the split toe work a treat. Good grip, no oyster cuts, no burny on hot sand, no prickles in the rigging area.

I pull up on my front foot quite a bit when sailing a slalom rig.
gh
gh
NSW
156 posts
gh gh
NSW, 156 posts
15 Nov 2010 7:49pm
Where do you feel the balance in the sail when planing? Everything should be balanced so you don't feel like you have to push back with your front foot. Do as you said rake the sail back and just relax, if everything is correct it should all feel balanced. I've ridden a Kona and that shouldn't be the cause of your problem.

I think old windsurfers had to think so much because the gear was pretty much c### and it took quite a bit of effort to balance the whole thing out so it felt comfortable.
sboardcrazy
sboardcrazy
NSW
8333 posts
NSW, 8333 posts
15 Nov 2010 8:49pm
nosinkanow said...

sboardcrazy said...
Re thinking.. yep I sometimes wonder..back in the 80's I just used to sail & enjoy now I'm trying to do everything like a text book..


I was talking to Gidget the other day, she said (paraphrase), "What's wrong with you old windsurfers? You guys think too much!". Hmmmm...she might have point.

I'm adopting a new attitude, just go by feel and if it feels good keep on doing it! And if it doesn't after the session go for the ice-pack, Panadols and Brufens!

I do that anyway..

DrJ
DrJ
ACT
481 posts
DrJ DrJ
ACT, 481 posts
15 Nov 2010 9:29pm
I don't think it has anything to do with the size, the kona one planes beautifully, when it is blastIng it is light and agile (relative to it size) I swear it's the OEM straps, no padding, poorly adjustable.

For once I can actually speak from experience.
Gidget
Gidget
NSW
104 posts
NSW, 104 posts
29 Nov 2010 1:18pm
Found the link for the Tarsal Tunnel Syndrome, which I was wondering about, after motorbike injuries etc etc etc. It is a chronic condition, not much really can be done for it.
Of course, a physio or podiatrist would know best.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarsal_tunnel_syndrome
"Patients complain typically of numbness in the foot, radiating to the big toe and the first 3 toes, pain, burning, electrical sensations, and tingling over the base of the foot and the heel"
"TTS is more common in athletes, active people, or individuals who stand.
a lot. These people put more stress on the tarsal tunnel area. "
nosinkanow
nosinkanow
NSW
441 posts
NSW, 441 posts
29 Nov 2010 4:43pm
Gidget said...

Found the link for the Tarsal Tunnel Syndrome, which I was wondering about, after motorbike injuries etc etc etc. It is a chronic condition, not much really can be done for it.



Thanks Gidget I'll have a squizz, I guess it's like a bad back, once you have one it'll always come back another day...which I also have a problem with, but just got a new combintation waist/seat harness and it feels super comfy. Zero riding up problem and great weight distribution through my lower back.

Also I think I might have solved the immediate foot problem, I've splayed the front straps out a bit more, I kept the back screws in the same place and moved the front ones more towards the rail. Had a short blast the other day and even with my still dicky foot it felt better. Next is to try some old cut-down dive boots with a little more solid sole than reef style boots so it should help with any sideways crush. They are ready to go just have to find a window of opportunity, maybe this week.

Thanks again for the link.
sboardcrazy
sboardcrazy
NSW
8333 posts
NSW, 8333 posts
29 Nov 2010 6:22pm
nosinkanow said...

Gidget said...

Found the link for the Tarsal Tunnel Syndrome, which I was wondering about, after motorbike injuries etc etc etc. It is a chronic condition, not much really can be done for it.



Thanks Gidget I'll have a squizz, I guess it's like a bad back, once you have one it'll always come back another day...which I also have a problem with, but just got a new combintation waist/seat harness and it feels super comfy. Zero riding up problem and great weight distribution through my lower back.

Also I think I might have solved the immediate foot problem, I've splayed the front straps out a bit more, I kept the back screws in the same place and moved the front ones more towards the rail. Had a short blast the other day and even with my still dicky foot it felt better. Next is to try some old cut-down dive boots with a little more solid sole than reef style boots so it should help with any sideways crush. They are ready to go just have to find a window of opportunity, maybe this week.

Thanks again for the link.


ITs a real art finding ways to get old injured bodies to continue sailboarding..
Gidget
Gidget
NSW
104 posts
NSW, 104 posts
29 Nov 2010 11:01pm
sboardcrazy said...

ITs a real art finding ways to get old injured bodies to continue sailboarding..


Ah, we're all getting older and the bits are getting worn down. What are we going to be like in another 10-20 years? Whingeing old farts??
Still, as any doctor will tell you, the important thing is to KEEP ACTIVE! I guess pain is just part of life now, but it's all about managing it and working within our limits.
I'm not dead yet!!

nosinkanow
nosinkanow
NSW
441 posts
NSW, 441 posts
29 Nov 2010 11:51pm
sboardcrazy said...

ITs a real art finding ways to get old injured bodies to continue sailboarding..


I've hurt myself more in my return to windsurfing this year in 12 lake sailing sessions than I had when I sailed nearly 10 years solid throughout the 80's in surf and ocean high wind conditions! Geez I've never even wacked my head on the mast ever till a couple of months ago when I got catapulted whilst hooked in, that was on the day I decided I was ready to have a go at over 15 knots and find the straps! Straps are not a problem now, even the wide apart back ones.

I'm now just concentrating on reaching and maintaining speed and control in stronger winds. At the same time I'm putting more effort into gybes and shortly start chop hopping with an aim of landing whilst still planing...that'll be interesting. After that I'll look for height. When comfortable I'll head out to open water...which is a pretty scary thought at the moment. But it will happen.

Anyway hurting myself hasn't put me off, hurt is only temporary! I've set quite high a goal for myself and I'm not going to stop till I reach it, even if it takes me 2 seasons or more! I can feel improvements in every session so I know I'm heading in the right direction.

Life's too short, I'm witnessing this twice in my life now. I'm just going for it while I still can and windsurfing is now my life again! Every other sport has taken a backseat and I'm always looking out the window at trees again...sheesh I reckon I'm well and truly hooked.
petermac33
petermac33
WA
6415 posts
WA, 6415 posts
29 Nov 2010 8:54pm
a good night's sleep for me is best way to recover after a long sailing session.


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