Chinook fittings

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TelecomGreg
TelecomGreg
QLD
94 posts
QLD, 94 posts
4 Apr 2007 3:17pm
I recent bought a new twin bolt chinook deck plate and uni joint and have only used it a few time.
To my amazment the stainless bits all have surface rust on them
I still have my old one which is years old no probs
Is chinook short changing us by using low grade s/steel instead of
marine grade

TelecomGreg
Big Al
Big Al
WA
265 posts
WA, 265 posts
4 Apr 2007 1:59pm
Quite possibly TCGreg.
Would probably be grade 304 Stainless instead of the marine grade 316L [}:)]. FYI, less nickel content means lower number which in turn means cheaper. Both look nice n shiny when new, only 316L looks good after a few months of salt water though.

AB....
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
4 Apr 2007 2:26pm
I have same with my Chinook base (purchased start of season), not used that often, rusty! I didn't want to buy a base in the first place, just the carbon extension - but then I discovered that euro pins come in 2 lengths I can understand pin or cup, BUT WHY 2 LENGTHS for pins
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
4 Apr 2007 2:29pm
"I love standards, there are so many to choose from"

- Gary Stafford
Zubby
Zubby
SA
896 posts
SA, 896 posts
4 Apr 2007 4:17pm
My friend snapped his Chinook uni joint after only having it for 12 months.
Leech
Leech
WA
1933 posts
WA, 1933 posts
4 Apr 2007 2:55pm
Snapping a UJ after 12 months isn't particularly unusual. It's a good idea to change your UJ every season!
MintoxGT
MintoxGT
WA
975 posts
WA, 975 posts
4 Apr 2007 3:17pm
Telecom Greg,

Are you saying the euro pin is rusting as well or just the dual bolt base?

Cheers GT
TelecomGreg
TelecomGreg
QLD
94 posts
QLD, 94 posts
4 Apr 2007 6:07pm
I don't know which bit is the euro pin but the two pins that slide across and lock the uni in are rusty and the hex under the uni pin that is used to screw the bolts down on the deck plate is going rusty
I wonder if chinook knows about this or they have been conned by there supplier.

TelecomGreg
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
5 Apr 2007 12:11am
So whats the deal with the 2 different lengths for the euro pin? Is the Chinook longer than the North? Does this mean You could use a Chinook pin with either Chinook or North extension but not vice versa?
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
5 Apr 2007 7:18am
North have both:

http://www.north-windsurf.com/rig-components/tuning-parts.en

Neil Pryde and Chinook short:

www.neilpryde.com/news/latest-news/neilpryde-windsurfing-power-base-replacement-program.html

www.chinooksailing.com/web03/bases.html

Short pins go in long holes... Long pins do not go not in short holes.
Paul Kelf
Paul Kelf
WA
678 posts
WA, 678 posts
5 Apr 2007 11:06am
Any grade of Stainless Steel will show signs of staining in the right conditions.
What you are seeing is probably what we call Tea Staining.
When the Stainless Steel is processed, machined, bent, stamped or threaded it can also become contaminated by the tooling which is made from steel containing iron.
What the manufacturers are neglecting to do is remove the contamination and reinstate the protective film on the stainless steel.
It is a simple method of cleaning with an acid called Pickling and or Passivating.
Electropolishing also has the same affect.
I took all my allen keys out of my sails a couple of years ago and passivated them to stop the rust stains ruining my sails.
At the end of the day it won't affect the bolts or fittings, it just looks cheap & nasty.
MintoxGT
MintoxGT
WA
975 posts
WA, 975 posts
5 Apr 2007 12:07pm
Mr Kelf,

Is the electropolishing / passivating something I could do? I am quite the twit, so if it is easy I would consider doing it.

Thanks for the informative information informining uninformed uniformed people

Cheers GT
Paul Kelf
Paul Kelf
WA
678 posts
WA, 678 posts
5 Apr 2007 1:20pm
GT
There are a couple of Electropolishers in Perth, one in McCoy Street near WSP and the other in O,Connor.
Passivating & Pickling is done by painting on a paste and washing off with water, very simple.
Only problem is you must have a license to buy the stuff and it is very nasty if you get it on you. Your only option is Electropolishing but like I said why bother, it's only cosmetic.
Not worth messing around with.
elmo
elmo
WA
8890 posts
WA, 8890 posts
5 Apr 2007 3:19pm
Although it doesn't look, I wouldn't worry about it.

It's only a surface imperfection(cosmetic) not a structural weakness.
TelecomGreg
TelecomGreg
QLD
94 posts
QLD, 94 posts
5 Apr 2007 6:57pm
Thanks for informing this uninformed...Paul K

TelecomGreg
beswift
beswift
39 posts
39 posts
5 Apr 2007 9:10pm
An old salt who lives in my town, a port, and works at a harware store told me that a magnet will reveal how much steel is in the stainless. Good stainless won't be attracted by one. All stainless stains. I don't know how much Coffee is consumed down under, but here in the states quite a bit of it is prepared in stainless urns. If these urns aren't cleaned regularly with bleach or some other serious cleaning agent, the develop a distinctive bad taste. It's rather commonly tasted in coffee made at churches and other public meeting places. The coffee can be so bad at an Alcoholics Annonymous meeting that there's no wonder many return to alcohol.
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
6 Apr 2007 2:23am
Beswift,

That'd be nickel. Nickel content makes stainless steel less magnetic.

Pugwash,

I see what you mean about short vs long pins. Seen a couple of pins snap though... what do you think of the old chinook cup system? Which is stronger in waves?
pueno
pueno
19 posts
19 posts
6 Apr 2007 9:05am
"...can be so bad at an Alcoholics Annonymous meeting that there's no wonder many return to alcohol..."

Spoken like one who really knows, Brucie.

Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
6 Apr 2007 11:13am
quote:
Originally posted by nebbian


I see what you mean about short vs long pins. Seen a couple of pins snap though... what do you think of the old chinook cup system? Which is stronger in waves?



Never seen one snap... Seen plenty of those stupid little tendons snap Some people say cup is stronger, less likely to come apart and better for waves... Whether this is true or not I have only ever used pin - long pin (until recently).
chinookRandD
chinookRandD
18 posts
18 posts
7 Apr 2007 1:46am
Hello all, Sorry to hear about the rust problem. It is good to know though since we have not seen that particular component rusting. Paul is correct here with regards to the particular grades of stainless, they all can rust under the right conditions. Many of the fasteners we use are simply not available in 316 S.S so we use 18-8 for the most part which is mostly 304 grade. That said, we have not seen ANY of these 18-8 fasteners rust. What you are most likely seeing here is surface rust caused by contamination from a high speed tool steel cutting tool. Micro particles of the tool steel can become embedded in the S.S part during machining & thus these particles will rust. I have been trying to switch over to carbide tooling to help negate this problem, & have also looked into passivating the parts. However, my research has lead me to believe it is not as simple as Paul suggested. Again this is not a structural problem so wouldn't worry too much, but we are trying to improve in this respect. Paul, if you have the "recipe" for this home grown passivating solution, please do pass it on. We are a small Mfg co & build most all of our parts "in-house" so welcome all your feedback from down under!

regards,

Caleb Walker
R&D Mgr
Chinook Sailing Products
Mackay
Mackay
NSW
78 posts
NSW, 78 posts
7 Apr 2007 10:40am
Well I guess this forum works then! It doesn't get better than that.
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23647 posts
WA, 23647 posts
7 Apr 2007 10:33am
Beswift, I also live near a port, and mine happens to export nickel. We have a nickel contamination probem in town. I have noticed the urn effect you speak of, but more so since I moved here. Perhaps stainless steel is not so nice and could all be doing us harm.
mineral1
mineral1
WA
4564 posts
WA, 4564 posts
7 Apr 2007 6:11pm
quote:
Originally posted by chinookRandD

Hello all, Sorry to hear about the rust problem. It is good to know though since we have not seen that particular component rusting. Paul is correct here with regards to the particular grades of stainless, they all can rust under the right conditions. Many of the fasteners we use are simply not available in 316 S.S so we use 18-8 for the most part which is mostly 304 grade. That said, we have not seen ANY of these 18-8 fasteners rust. What you are most likely seeing here is surface rust caused by contamination from a high speed tool steel cutting tool. Micro particles of the tool steel can become embedded in the S.S part during machining & thus these particles will rust. I have been trying to switch over to carbide tooling to help negate this problem, & have also looked into passivating the parts. However, my research has lead me to believe it is not as simple as Paul suggested. Again this is not a structural problem so wouldn't worry too much, but we are trying to improve in this respect. Paul, if you have the "recipe" for this home grown passivating solution, please do pass it on. We are a small Mfg co & build most all of our parts "in-house" so welcome all your feedback from down under!

regards,

Caleb Walker
R&D Mgr
Chinook Sailing Products


Well if this post is on the up and up, and Caleb Walker is the R&D Mgr, then that has to be one of the best response from a Manufacture we have had in a while. The tone of the answer explaining maybe why and what "he" is trying to do about it has sold me.
To top this off, he (Caleb) actually request if one of us has a solution and would like to use same, indicates a two way street with this group.
And no I don't usually purchase Chinook gear, but me thinks, maybe I just might from now on in.
Mineral
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23647 posts
WA, 23647 posts
7 Apr 2007 11:35pm
Yeah agreed.
I wish I had seen a similar reply from some of the sail and / or mast manufactureres we sledged here not long ago. Guess they are too big to give a f^@k

I have bought Chinook for a while now, and on occasion have been tempted to go for the slightly cheaper option. Bugger that, Chinook all the way now.

TelecomGreg
TelecomGreg
QLD
94 posts
QLD, 94 posts
8 Apr 2007 1:16pm
I reckon the chinook base is the best, it's simple, it's strong (held in with 2 bolts), it's low on the deck, and lasts along time.
My old one isn't worn out yet but I thought I'd update.
the only drawback used to be you couldn't get it as far back as a single bolt but the board manufacturers move the track back a few years ago didn't they!!

This is not cash for comment!!
Thanks for your reply Caleb

TelecomGreg
beswift
beswift
39 posts
39 posts
9 Apr 2007 10:14pm
I wouldn't say that it was the >>best<< without qualifying the statement. It has many advantages depending on your needs, though. Actually, a magnet will indicate how much iron is in your stainless steel, but only through deductive logic how much nickel. I checked all my stainless, or what I thought was stainless, this way, and found the Chinook hardware passed the test.
chinookRandD
chinookRandD
18 posts
18 posts
10 Apr 2007 12:45am
Thanks all, we are trying! ...I am the R&D guy though I wear a few other hats as well.... It's always good to know where to focus our efforts. Keep the feedback coming!






Caleb Walker
R&D Mgr
Chinook Sailing Products
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
10 Apr 2007 3:44am
quote:
Originally posted by beswift

I wouldn't say that it was the >>best<< without qualifying the statement. It has many advantages depending on your needs, though. Actually, a magnet will indicate how much iron is in your stainless steel, but only through deductive logic how much nickel. I checked all my stainless, or what I thought was stainless, this way, and found the Chinook hardware passed the test.



So in your vast experience, beswift, what would the >>best<< mast base be? One that will unscrew when you go for a gybe if the uni is a bit sticky?

It would be good if you did a bit of research before posting as well. Specifically, what steel actually IS. (Hint, it's mostly iron).
Here's a good page to set you straight:
www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae546.cfm
It is the nickel which modifies the physical structure of the steel and makes it non-magnetic.

Edit: mixed up my b's and i's
chairman
chairman
500 posts
500 posts
10 Apr 2007 5:03am
nebbs
Sleep that knits up the ravelled sleeve of care
Please dont shout before sunup
See you at Manly
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
10 Apr 2007 10:03am
Hey Caleb,
Do you guys hold the rights to the "crankin" extension?
What about the safety release footstrap?
I seem to recall the Chinook name in relation to both of these things. Both seem to have disappeared.

Cheers
D #9835;
beswift
beswift
39 posts
39 posts
10 Apr 2007 6:59pm
quote:
Originally posted by Mark _australia

Beswift, I also live near a port, and mine happens to export nickel. We have a nickel contamination probem in town. I have noticed the urn effect you speak of, but more so since I moved here. Perhaps stainless steel is not so nice and could all be doing us harm.

Mark, you have to change that avatar, it's driving me crazy. Actually, most of the stain on the stainless urns comes from the acids in the coffee. Perhaps if you gave up drinking coffee from stainless urns, it might help. Personally, I make my coffee in plastic coffee makers. As to the best universal, I never stated there was a universally best universal, did I?
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