Cambered sail vs uncambered sails

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razzmatazz
razzmatazz
NSW
184 posts
NSW, 184 posts
19 Dec 2010 12:38pm
Why would one buy a uncambered sail if a cambered sail picks up faster and holds speed better? what advantages besides weight would a freeride sail have?
Roar
Roar
NSW
471 posts
NSW, 471 posts
19 Dec 2010 1:30pm
camberless sails are easier to gybe.
Easier to control in the air ie jumping
easier to control in any freestyle moves
lot more forgivving in strong gusts.
lot easier to learn with

cambered sails only real advantage is they pick up faster and hold speed a little better but not by much. gemerally they will have a wider low end range but as the wind gets stronger the difference gets smaller.
actiomax
actiomax
NSW
1576 posts
NSW, 1576 posts
19 Dec 2010 1:33pm
in my experiance which is very limited i find uncambered far easier to uphaul
razzmatazz
razzmatazz
NSW
184 posts
NSW, 184 posts
19 Dec 2010 2:07pm
camberless sails are easier to gybe.
Easier to control in the air ie jumping
easier to control in any freestyle moves
lot more forgivving in strong gusts.
lot easier to learn with

cambered sails only real advantage is they pick up faster and hold speed a little better but not by much. gemerally they will have a wider low end range but as the wind gets stronger the difference gets smaller

A good ROAR in the favour of the uncambered sail
wespyyl
wespyyl
WA
118 posts
WA, 118 posts
19 Dec 2010 11:11am
Uncambered sails are easier to rig and are lighter.

If your racing, doing speed runs or going out in very light winds then a cammed sail would probably be of benefit.

You don't see many cammed sails under 6.5 square metres.

Why would you want cams?

I've got a 7.5 non cammed free race sails that will get going with my 100L 55wide free ride board in about 13 knots. I'm about 88kg
redsurfbus
redsurfbus
304 posts
304 posts
19 Dec 2010 11:24am
Roar said...

camberless sails are easier to gybe.
Easier to control in the air ie jumping
easier to control in any freestyle moves
lot more forgivving in strong gusts.
lot easier to learn with

cambered sails only real advantage is they pick up faster and hold speed a little better but not by much. gemerally they will have a wider low end range but as the wind gets stronger the difference gets smaller.



I really disagree on a couple of points here unless I have misinterpreted them. Cammed sails are far better in strong gusts, and much less likely to backwind - which is why speed sailors will rig 1m bigger on average than when rigging a rotational sail. As the wind gets stronger the difference gets bigger - A 6m cammed sail will get you going in 15knots and keep stable with skill in up to 40knots (a local where I sail was doing some amazing gybes with a 6.3 in 40 knots, I couldnt believe it until I helped him de-rig!). In strong winds rotational sails become more uncontrollable and you have to change down a lot earlier.
Across the wind all other things equal then there is not much difference in top speed for me, but as I head off the wind it is instantly noticable.

You make your choice on the type of sailing you are doing, and the boards you have. If you have slalom boards then cammed is the way to go, giving you better ability through lulls and gusts, and much deeper downwind sailing for speed.
If you have freeride - then go for either - big cammed or big rotational - any bigger than 8m I would always prefer a couple of cams to hold the shape in the sail though.
FSW/Wave the choice is clearly rotational as you will be using a smaller fin so will not be driving as much off the foot on the rail at the back.
vando
vando
QLD
3419 posts
QLD, 3419 posts
19 Dec 2010 3:44pm
Yer depends a lot on what type of sailing you want to do.
for full slalom for sure you want a full cam sail.
freeride sailing - no real need to go with cam sails except maybe for the bigger sails 7.5 and above. across wind the no cam sails still have very good speed, there wouldn't be much in it. its going off the wind, up wind and going through the lulls where the full cambered sails excel.

Ian K
Ian K
WA
4169 posts
WA, 4169 posts
19 Dec 2010 2:43pm
All of the above, one extra, the battens and cams in a highly tensioned race sail cop a hiding during rigging, unrigging and gybing. Fine for one hard seasons use, but I've noticed in season two these things start to fail. That's just the price you pay for performance.
razzmatazz
razzmatazz
NSW
184 posts
NSW, 184 posts
19 Dec 2010 6:10pm
Am glad to hear all these good things about cammless sails since I just stated to get my quiver together. After sailing my cammed 7.4 yesterday i light winda I feared I had made a mistake. Am now reconfirmed. thanks
Trousers
Trousers
SA
565 posts
SA, 565 posts
19 Dec 2010 9:03pm
one thing i've found about cammed, and bear in mind this is just my opinion, is that the sail holds a near-perfect entry into the foil even with little wind in the sail. my un-cammed sails only become the proper shape with adequate wind in them. so if it's a light day (ie, at the low end of your sails range), the foil shape of a cammed sail promotes early planning, as the sail shape is efficient right from the get-go.

but with the huge luff tube, geez it's a pain to get the sail out the water when you're dunked, and every transition requires a violent flick to get the cams to rotate. if i can get away with it, i'll always rig an uncammed
Gaz45
Gaz45
QLD
113 posts
QLD, 113 posts
19 Dec 2010 9:56pm
Trousers said...

but with the huge luff tube, geez it's a pain to get the sail out the water when you're dunked, and every transition requires a violent flick to get the cams to rotate. if i can get away with it, i'll always rig an uncammed



That's why I don't have race sails, but there is a big choice of two and three cam sails on the market without big luff pockets. I have a NP H27.7 for my big light wind sail and everthing under that is a KA Koncept, none of them have big luff pockets.
shear tip
shear tip
NSW
1125 posts
NSW, 1125 posts
19 Dec 2010 11:20pm
Trousers said...
... and every transition requires a violent flick to get the cams to rotate...


Not always. I have two sails the same make/model and one is rigged on the spec mast and one is not. The non spec requires a hard flick and/or a kick to the bottom cam after a gybe. The matched mast rotates like a dream - no different than a rotational. When it's lying flat on the beach, it only requires the gentlest touch to rotate.

Which brings us to another point - cammed sails are less mast tolerant than raf's
Windxtasy
Windxtasy
WA
4019 posts
WA, 4019 posts
20 Dec 2010 11:23am
In what ways are cammed sails harder to gybe?
vando
vando
QLD
3419 posts
QLD, 3419 posts
20 Dec 2010 1:53pm
Windxtasy said...

In what ways are cammed sails harder to gybe?


rotation can be difficult as the above comments said, you need to kick the cams around on some cam sails.
cam sails also have more pull and acceleration out of the gybe, for sailors that havnt used cams sails before this can put you off balance so it does take a little longer to master.
MikeyS
MikeyS
VIC
1509 posts
VIC, 1509 posts
20 Dec 2010 6:29pm
vando said...

Windxtasy said...

In what ways are cammed sails harder to gybe?


rotation can be difficult as the above comments said, you need to kick the cams around on some cam sails.
cam sails also have more pull and acceleration out of the gybe, for sailors that havnt used cams sails before this can put you off balance so it does take a little longer to master.



... and don't depower by oversheeting as well as a non-cammed sail when coming into the gybe.
sideskirt
sideskirt
328 posts
328 posts
20 Dec 2010 4:49pm
I had only benefits with cambered sail regarding gybes and wind gusts... isn't a cambered sail made to have a better wind range and should work better in gusts than non camed sail? (I personally like Wave sails a lot more, but 7.6 Naish stealth kicks ass in 15-18knot breezes)

as far as gybes concerns, I felt a lot more power during the carve then with non camed sail, didn't loose that much speed and the board felt more stable during foot switch... i guess because of the sail still pulling the board... All in all, I use both but in strong wind wave/freestyle sail in light cammed sail.
razzmatazz
razzmatazz
NSW
184 posts
NSW, 184 posts
20 Dec 2010 7:51pm
vando said...

Windxtasy said...

In what ways are cammed sails harder to gybe?


rotation can be difficult as the above comments said, you need to kick the cams around on some cam sails.
cam sails also have more pull and acceleration out of the gybe, for sailors that havnt used cams sails before this can put you off balance so it does take a little longer to master.



Wouldn't that have to do with outhaul? If I adjust the outhaul to the stage that the sail looks good the cams start to swivel just nicely. Maybe this dreaded mast compatibility comes in here too
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