I am thinking about getting a 2018 Naish Hover crossover 120 / 2018 Naish thrust surf foil large.

Can I also windsurf with the surffoil or should I get the windsurffoil for that?

Camarillo said..
I am thinking about getting a 2018 Naish Hover crossover 120 / 2018 Naish thrust surf foil large.

Can I also windsurf with the surffoil or should I get the windsurffoil for that?

If you are looking for a budgetary foiling solution consider to spend $1000+. For most of foilers I know a more expensive foil was actually a lower cost option. These who started wit budgetary low grade foils like Naish, Manta, Stingshot bought another $1000+ foils during the same season.
When you ride Naish and other similar foils you feel kind of behind in comparison to other foilers around you. In a few days, when you learn some foiling you will feel like Naish equipment resists to uncover all your potential. The main enjoyment in foiling is acceleration when you get on the foil. You tilt the board on wind and sheet-in the sail in order to accelerate to a very high speed in very little wind. Low cost foils do not deliver such of performance. If you sheet-in Naish slows down, not accelerating.
Granted, you will get in flight on Naish. But you will not fly - you will hover like a balloon. This is why it is called "Hover." Hovering is a nice and exciting feeling when you get on a foil at the first time. But that is it. In an hour you would want a real freedom of a flight to enjoy, and "Hover" does not deliver THE FLIGHT.
Practically, you will see some windsurfers with fins already planing while you cannot get Nais into a flight. While in flight you will see windsurfers with fins going faster. Then you ask yourself what is your "Hover" giving to you to enjoy windsurfing, while the traditional windsurfing seems to be more fun.
There are reviews on this forum from some who used many different foils including Naish. They say that Naish is ok foil but they would not buy it. There are reviews from Naish users who used Naish only. These Naish users give ok review but you do not read any excitement and fun from these. All the Naish users are considering to get a better foil.
Indeed, Naish foils are well promoted by YouTube commercial videos and by Naish team on this and other forums of pretending to be ordinary customers. You need to filter out the brainwashing work done on you. A common mistake is visualizing yourself on a Naish foil like what you see on Naish commercial. Unfortunately we are all humans susceptible to brainwash. The truth is that you will look like this Naish owner who got himself Naish foil for birthday. See on 3:57:

Perhaps, Naish design needs some hydrodynamic expertise. Look how much of cavitation Naish wing generates (see a white cloud behind the right wing) on the .

It is not a surprise the 65-years old Naish owner failed on the right side because Naish right wing lost lift.
I think it takes more than an expert windsurfer to design a windsurfing hydrofoil. Naisg is a windsurfer, not THE ONE for the hydrofoil design job.
Another red flag in this Naish foil is the vertical tail. It must be a reason for this vertical tail - the foils was probably unstable so Naish added this vertical tail to fix stability issue. Based on the video one may think that stability issue remains at some extend. There is some bug in this particular foil design that needs a vertical tail to keep it stable. Do you see vertical tails on $1000 + foils? It actually cost money to make the tail. I think Naish would would like to have a fix without extra cost tail. But they did not know how to fix instability without the tail. However, some Naish rodeo on water may be fun too. I think the benefit of starting with Naish foil is to really appreciate well designed advanced foils that you will buy soon after you buy Naish. I am not referring to the cartel of NP, Starboard, JP, F4 foils sold for about $2K or more. These have quality issues because of made in Asia by low cost labor, while highly overprices and over promoted. There are about 100+ other foil manufacturers. Try to avoid paid commercials. Watch what are the ordinary filers (not professional experts) are foiling on YouTube.
About longer mast. I have 55 cm and 79 cm. I like 55 cm more. for me it is easier to curve waves when waves are large and short. Other may suggest a longer mast on waves but it all depends. I do not have waves small enough in my spot very often to go straight through the waves on a longer mast. On large waves I prefer more control and more stability with a shorter 55 cm mast. I tried 90 cm and did not like it. Perhaps, I got used to 55 cm. Notice, 55 cm is a lot safer than 90 cm. the best what I like about my 55 cm is an easy beach start and easy to carry. Foilers with 90 cm masts need to walk a 100 yard deeper than me and they cannot do beach start. I completely agree with Naish about 55 cm mast.

ratz said..
have you heard that saying if you havnt anything nice to say then just shut the hell up.
your repeated naish bashing is getting a tad tiresome.

I love my Naish medium particularly since I wet & dry sanded the graphics smooth so no thick edges.

gorgesailor said..

XYZ said..

Camarillo said..
I am thinking about getting a 2018 Naish Hover crossover 120 / 2018 Naish thrust surf foil large.

Can I also windsurf with the surffoil or should I get the windsurffoil for that?

Blahblahblah

Good job! ... YOU are a genius! Well said! .... & good looking too! ... My hero! ...Thanks for posting! ...Where can I get the foil you would suggest? ...I would pay $$$$$ for it! .... Please?!

Is that the Gorge PC way of saying F-k off?

and please do not hide behind a user name like xyz
when i am being an ass - everyone knows who i am
so, xyz - who are you and from where ??

So XYZ, you say you've ridden the Naish foil? Finally - after all this time of canning it, and now you've taken out which one to try? Your perception of it's performance - like details on how you found it to foil up in light winds or turning ability? But no mention of which model? No photos on you on said product? Hmmm, forgive me for again feeling skeptical about your opinion on Naish products. I'll back it in you haven't ridden one, but are just out to rubbish the product yet again.

You say:
The main enjoyment in foiling is acceleration when you get on the foil. You tilt the board on wind and sheet-in the sail in order to accelerate to a very high speed in very little wind. Low cost foils do not deliver such of performance. If you sheet-in Naish slows down, not accelerating.

Maybe the reason you aren't performing well on the Naish is because you're not good at getting the foil going in light winds. I'm not even sure you understand the concept. What exactly do you mean when you say you "tilt the board on wind"? What - tilt it sideways into the wind? Point it into the wind? I don't know but you don't make sense. And I think it's because lots of stuff on foiling for you is theoretical or made up and not practical. And I also think that's because you either don't foil, or aren't particularly good at it.
So you can't get it to foil in light winds? Well, here's a tip mate. Try a thing called pumping the sail. Rather than just sheeting in and stalling the sail, you instead pump the sail to get speed and then the foil will fly. Don't believe me? Well try watching some of those Naish videos you canned in other forums. You can see people pumping the sail and getting the foils flying in very light winds. Much like the other foils do too.

And you also say most people who buy cheap foils like Naish go out and buy another more expensive foil in the SAME season? Based on? What, 2 imaginary people you met down the pub one friday night? I don't know anyone in Tas who has done that. I'll call BS on that one too. And there's lots of people foiling here with stuff that's not top end.
And the 'evidence' you provided on the Naish foil cavitating, is not limited to only Naish foils. I have seen other foils do the same thing.

You also say:
I think it takes more than an expert windsurfer to design a windsurfing hydrofoil. Naisg is a windsurfer, not THE ONE for the hydrofoil design job.

Actually, I think a hugely experienced waterman like Robby Naish is exactly the sort of person who designs these things well. Are you going to tell me he hasn't got a clue about kiting (which he was heavily involved in it's development). I'd say a guy like Naish KNOWS how these things work. You can see this by how well he windsurfs, surfs, SUPS, kites and foils.

I notice no mention of your favoured FRP gear? How's it going? Has it taken off and is it selling really well like you said it would half a year ago? Oh and are you still posting under the sprialbevel account or have you given up on that one?

For anyone else who wants to know XYZ's credentials in relation to foiling experience, he pops up regularly in the forum heading:

Windsurfing Foiling 2018

-where a number of us have a VERY poor opinion of his advice.

XYZ do yourself and the rest of us a favour and stop posting crap in these forums. It's just wasting our time telling everyone what a fake you are.

gorgesailor said.
...Where can I get the foil you would suggest? ...I would pay $$$$$ for it! .... Please?!

PayPal "Buy Now" button on a merchant web site could be a step to your dream. There is an option on this forum to contact me privately if you are need more specifics.
The are many good foils to buy. I like my foil because I did not need to adjust foot straps to find a sweet balance spot. The entire foil assembly moves along the board for 40cm. Some Naish mounting systems have similar option but with lesser distance adjustments. This is the big advantage for beginners because it is difficult for the beginners to understand how to adjust all the multiple settings such as angles and foot straps, which commonly results in less then perfect setting uncomfortable to ride. But if the entire foil assembly has an option to move you do not need to change any angles from factory perfect preset. When I use a larger sail or a different board I just move my foil to a new position. It is like changing your mast extension or boom size. No need to move the mast base of foot straps. This is just very easy to use. Performance in flight is a separate issue. Performance depends more on the wings. If to go back to Naish I am sure it can be improved significantly with a better wing. I think Naish has more like management issue with improving its design. Made in Asia foils typically have quality issues due to low cost of labor. Foils made in the US or France are better, but slightly higher cost. Naish, Sligshot, Starboard, NP/JP foils make in Asia are all showing quality problems. If you like these Asia made foils you can get them for under $400 from alibaba express - the same foils made by the same people and sold directly from real foil manufacturer. When you shop for these Asian foils and get quotes from these Asian real manufacturers you see that it is just a few, if not a single company, that makes all these foils. It is the same situation like with sails. One company in Asia makes sails for all the sail companies like NP, EZZY, Aerotech,... This is probably why each of the foil brands is king of holding its own market without trying to interfere with the competitor. They have just all got into a deal to split the foiling market to keep prices high. Otherwise, I do not have an explanation what stops Naish, Slingshot, Manta and like from reverse engineering of better foils. Technically it is easy as we can see many smaller companies do copy the best engineering ideas from the top performers. I think it may be not because engineers at Naish are not good. It is probably because Naish is not allowed to make better foils.