Wind foil is more efficient at the moment in my opinion. If you are looking to get going early and fly longer through lulls, a large freeride foil with a foil specific sail will work well. Alternatively a big racing wing (900+) and foil specific race sail will also work well.

allesad said..
Looking for any experience on early planing on a wind foil vs. a wing foil.
Curious if anyone compared on the same day/conditions...side by side "wing vs. sail"

EX. "Wizard 125 / 6.0m Sail / Infinity 99 foil" vs. "Wizard 125 / 6.0m Wing / Infinity 99 foil"

Which kit planes first? and longest?? Trying to figure out if which yield's more foil riding??


THX

Just spent 4 days camping and wind foiling in the straits of Mackinaw. A friend who is younger and in better shape had a Kalama Custom foil board, 5'8" and 117(?) liters with a GoFoil Maliko 200 and an Ozone Wasp 6.0. I was using my Levitator 160, SS i84 foil with a 6.0 Sailworks Flyer. We were out Saturday in fairly light conditions and I was able to get on foil and stay on foil much easier than him, until the wind picked up. Then it was pretty equal.
To me, a big advantage of the wingy thingy is it's range of wind. My friend uses his from 12-30mph. I change sails 3 times in that range currently.

allesad said..
Excav8ter, THX. Thats exactly what I heard last week from a rep at Mackite Boardsports in MI. Wings have huge range.
I foil on a 1100 Moses and can plane real easy, buy today I had to change from a 5.5 to a 7.0 when the wind dropped 7-17 mph

MACkite is where I get most of my stuff! I live 20 minutes away from them. They have been great do deal with.

I've been out windfoiling a bunch of times with my wife learning to wing foil. She's a lot lighter than I am (I'm 195 lb). When windsurfing, we mere evenly matched when she was on 4.0-4.2, 89 l, and I was on 5.0, 110 l. Foiling, she'd be on a i76, 4.2, 90 l while I was on i84, 5.0, 117 l.
We have only one 4.2 wing so far. (F-One). She's been using it with i84 and a 115l l JP SUP while I was on an i84, 117 l with anything from 5.0 to 6.5. I had to fight for control in gusts in a few sessions, she never had an issue. She was usually foiling as much as I was, sometimes more. She's had one session winging on the i76 in stronger winds and liked it much better than the i84 (which she likes a lot for winging, less for windfoiling).

Another big difference on the wing is that she is now usually the one on the water longer. Windfoiling, she used to come off the water before me, even though she used the harness all the time, and I use it only occasionally. With the wing, I usually stop earlier. Her longest session so far was 4 hours (without break), and her only complaint was that she started getting a blister. No harness with the wing, she does not see the point.

I'm very impressed with the range of the wing. I can foil on my 5.6 in ~12 knots, and stay on the water in 25+ knot gusts, but it's a bit survival mode at the upper end (partly due to 3 ft voodoo chop in higher wind). Her range on the wind foil was much lower, since she did not like to be powered up on the foil. With the wing, it's no issue at all so far. The only small issue was when we had very shifty winds, where the wind would often change direction by 45 degrees and strength within less than a second. The wing sometimes would start fluttering if she was going upwind. I'd often get backwinded by the same change, or at least have some wild up and downs.

So after about 10 sessions on the wing (and 50+ windfoiling), she has about the same lower range with a one size larger foil, but a much larger upper range. We'll have to get a larger wing for me to try winging, because there's no way she'll let me use the 4.2 in the kind of wind I'd need to get going on it. It's a bit of a wait, though, since wings are in short supply in the US right now, and we want a specific one.

Wings foil up sooner than windfoil, but might take more athletics and fitness.

SunsetSailboards is now only 185 lbs
4.0 is his only wing. He foils on a i99 in wind from 6-25+ knots.
He started on 4 and 5 meter wings. Promptly poked a hole in the 5, so used the 4 for maybe 40 of his 1st 45 days winging.
Fixed his 5 maybe May, but by then found his 4 pumps better, is handier, and is lighter.
He foils up when other 165 lb guys are still kneeling and slogging.
He foils up when I am still slogging on a 5.0 sail and Naish 1220.
Otherwise, of the 7 or so foilers I normally foil with, I am always on the smallest sail.
2 other wingers on 5's foil up before anyone on 5 windfoiling by pumping more efficiently.
No doubt, IF IF you can pump, the wing can be pumped up onto a foil because it's light and can unweighted your feet just like kitesurfing.

These are not 60 year old fat guys like me.
They are athletic 40 year olds.
I've seen athletic 17 year olds pump a 4 meter wing up onto foil in less than 7 knots and even jump in maybe 15 knot winds. Of course, those 2 guys might weigh 135 lbs.

And still bad windfoiler.
2 days ago, 4.2 and 600 wing, was overpowered by 20 knot gusts, only able to ride upwind and downwind like a Formula board and 9.2 sail. Disgusting.
Can't seem to stay stable with board speed approaching 20 knots.
Very stable in 15 knots breeze, even one handed and looking around.
One problem might be that in the past 2 years, I still windsurf on -95 liter boards and -5.5 sails around 6 days for every one day I get to foil.
This year, maybe 90 windsurf days to 10 foil days.

sunsetsailboards said..
I think the big advantage w/ the wing is that you don't have ~15lbs of rig weight that needs to go up and down every time you pump the foil.

Kevin, what about the wing pulling upward, effectively reducing your weight? That would make the difference even larger than the rig weight. If you pump a rig, the effect is forward-sideward lift. If you pump a wing, the effect would be upward-forward lift? Or is that not an issue because the wing just carries it's own weight when you only pump the foil to get going?

Ist thing I ask new wingdingers...."have you kitesurfed?" A YES cuts the initial learning curve in half.
Good for the 1st 10 or so days. After that, it's talent, practice, and determination.

I was thinking....a windsurfer who can also kite...not a kiter only.
Jonny Heiniken foil jibed his Dad's windfoil kit first try, according to Paul.
Paul has not made a foil or planing jibe in 30 sessions.

That marathon day, ws 4.7 and 86 board.
Next day, 4.2. Sunday, 4.7 and 85 liters. Rode bike on Monday.

At my current novice skill level, I windfoil to increase my light wind range. I picked up a 6m Wasp, then sold it as I realised I could get going at the bottom end much easier with a windfoil than a wing. The wind foil is easier to chug around with and get back to shore in fickle conditions too. I still like the winging concept, but the reality is it doesn't suit my needs ........... yet

Apart from the wind range comparing kit, the single biggest benefactor is the ease of rigging up (packing away) and transporting around!

For wind foiling 5-35 knots.. I generally transport, 2 foil boards, 2 foils (4 wings), 4 sails, 4 masts, 2 boom, 3 extensions and mast plates, harness, spare UJ's, spare parts etc.

For winging 5-35 knots.. 2 wings (in one back pack), 1 pump, 1 board, 1 foil with 2 wings.

Now brands are bringing out good inflatable boards, so travelling with 2 large back packs will be pretty sweet

Grantmac said.. The range with the wing appears to be a significant advantage over windfoiling.

I don't agree.
I can use a big foil like a windwinger and happily sail in 10-25 knots with a 4.5m - depowering in the bigger gusts just like they do.

Reckon ocean windfoiling has a higher performance level than windwinging - we use smaller foil wings and have more power on tap, so are faster downwind,upwind and carve harder.
Changing sail size to facilitate that performance advantage makes sense - but it's not necessary