looks very dated and bludy slow to me - a masrm920 would destroy that in any conditions! not to mention what a multihull would do to it...

hey smash - thats because u wud already be in port on a masrm920 or similar - by the way - why r u called smash?
hey cisco - u r right - there is no comparison! my pescott does 8 - 10 knots to windward, double reefed in 40 - 45 knots, 35 degrees apparent, with neutral steering. Its all about efficiency - just like the farriers - Hows the steering on the floating footpath with no main? fair dinkum...

oceans15 said...

hey smash - thats because u wud already be in port on a masrm920 or similar - by the way - why r u called smash?
hey cisco - u r right - there is no comparison! my pescott does 8 - 10 knots to windward, double reefed in 40 - 45 knots, 35 degrees apparent, with neutral steering. Its all about efficiency - just like the farriers - Hows the steering on the floating footpath with no main? fair dinkum...

Hey Oceans15, what sort of pescott do you have? how does she go to windward in a 10ft ground swell 2ft cross chop on top.

regards James

Hey smash - thanx for pointing out another purposeless comparison - e780 is a small volume sports boat and is handicapped as such and u know it. Masrms (920's) mostly have standing headroom and fit-outs and were ahead of their time and u know that too. My point is/was to give up on dinosaur designs - if u like them thats ok but dont push them on newcomers - the sport/hobby/lifestyle needs to move forwards

I tend to agree with the criteria, but depending on your budget, compromises can be made.

I've owned one boat, a Top Hat. Sure, it's old and a little sad looking, but on her last haul out was given the all clear "solid as a rock". For my money ($10k) is what we paid, she's quite OK in some of the categories listed, with a few adjustments because we're only two and would never take another couple overnight. It's not our thing.

1. Affordable for common folk. Therefore less than 40 ft.
$10k, 25 feet.
2. Two double berths/cabins apart from the saloon.
1 double berth apart from the saloon
3. We do not crewz without booze. Therefore refrigeration for Icy Ales. Ice don't do it.
Not yet fitted, but space available
4. Minimum 5 knot capability punching a swell under iron topsail. Smooth water 7 knots.
More like 3-4 punching, hull speed of 6.8
5. High windward sailing ability for clawing off lee shores.
Absolutely, if the sails weren't 20+ years old
6. Stores capacity over and above emergency food and water rations for minimum 14 days at sea.
There have been accounts of circumnavigations, and a Top Hat was the only boat to finish without relinquishing sail in a Trans Tasman race http://users.tpg.com.au/kateh1/tophat/files/transtasman.pdf

7. For the ladies, for short trips, at least 8 private enclosed stand up hot showers.
Would you settle for two solar showers and cold running water?

web.aanet.com.au/lamoore/frametophatmkIIIextras.html

homepage.mac.com/clatimer/TopHatYachts/FileSharing11.html

BTW, this isn't by any means blowing my own trumpet, it's just an illustration that sometimes, for some people, older, slower boats are all that's within reach and suitable for their style of boating. If I had more money perhaps it would have been a Van de Stadt or an S&S if there was one around, but all I had was $10k and since we've owned our Top Hat, she's given us many days and nights of great times and always looked after us when the going gets tough.

Why post all this info on a Top Hat? Well, the links above with the research is the reason I bought one. Plus, the definition of "An Ideal Coastal Cruiser" is going to differ depending on where you're cruising and who you're taking, not to mention budget. So, whilst I quite like the VITA and think it could be quite good, "ideally" it's out of my price range.

So, to add some further criteria,

Single handed ability, in case of injury or illness.
Back up systems such as batteries, Nav and Comms, in case of failure.
Additional water capacity, especially for all those showers!!!.
Ability to stow either a hard tender on the foredeck, or davit, or a rubber dinghy for those forays to shore for some skinny dipping with the crew.
Water catchment?

Just some thoughts to liven up the forum...

[}:)]

Mick

cisco said...
Thanks for your input Mick and your further criteria. Especially your first, which is very important.

"Single handed ability, in case of injury or illness."

The "Top Hat 25" design no doubt deserves to be put up on the honour board along with the "S&S 34" as one of the all time great cruising/racing yacht designs.

If one of these yachts in good condition can be purchased for $10,000 it represents a bargain as an ocean capable live aboard cruising yacht and meets MY first criteria of being affordable to the common man.

However one must keep in mind that if the yacht was in commercial production, the price tag for a new yacht would probably be in the region of $70,000 to $90,000 as exampled by the price tag of a new Folkboat.

Fibreglass has become a very expensive building medium for any kind of yacht.

Again, thanks for your input Mick. I am sure we all would enjoy seeing some photos of your beautiful yacht. Hint, hint. Cheers Cisco.

Edit P.S. Please feel free to start a thread "Top Hat 25 - An Ideal Coastal Cruiser???"

Cheers Cisco,

I'd say that because the Top Hat is almost all fibreglass, with a cabin stepped mast, they would be on the expensive side, and when they were made, they retailed for $14,000 and you still had to put up the rigging!

I actually posted many months ago with some interior shots and one at mooring. Like others, under sail has been hard. I know someone who has them, but she doesn't seem to be answering.... Sonia!

The post was originally here.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=52811

Again, for anyone who's interested in the Top Hat, we have our own very active forum at www.tophatyachts.org

But just for Cisco, here's a pic.



So, there's no need to put up another post about Top Hats, but they should be on the list as an "everyman's pocket cruiser"

Mick