Assuming matter actually exists... direct experience reveals without being conscious of this so called "matter" stuff then it ceases to exist. What comes first and last here ? Trying to observe and explain matter through our limited senses is like trying to ask your hand to explain your brain to you. and around and around we go .... so called matter observing so called matter and wondering why the so called model of matter keeps eluding the conscious observer. neither up nor down. Relative terms based on the inability to model infinite space from the limited perspective of so called matter.